#007 Fatherhood, Investing & Energy Markets w/ Daz Bea

"Everyday people shouldn't need a degree in finance to beat inflation and that's what a lot of people have to do. What's really tragic, is us wage earners are conditioned to believe that our home is our most prized possession. And through these tumultuous times whereby interest rates are starting to rise and people are over-indebted, you will try and protect that home at all costs..."
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Daz Bea is a dad, husband, sparky, Bitcoiner and all round good Aussie bloke. That’s my version of his bio. Here’s his ‘official’ one...

Daz is an electrician from Queensland, Australia and Co-Founder of Looking Glass Education - an all-in-one educational platform built to empower individuals to take control of their financial futures.

Daz completed an engineering degree while working full-time to support his young family, while simultaneously self-educating on personal investment strategies. Daz also makes a secondary income gigging as a solo-acoustic guitarist and singer. Monetising his passion drove him to take massive action with what he’d learned about investing in various markets on his way to discovering Bitcoin.

He loves spending his spare weekends in the family caravan exploring different areas of Australia. He is passionate about educating people from finance to engineering to self-development.

Find and follow the lovely Daz at any of the following:
Twitter https://twitter.com/dazbea1
Looking Glass Education website: https://lookingglasseducation.com/
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Transcript

Daz Bea: 0:00

you know, everyday people shouldn't have to have a degree in finance in order to beat inflation, you know, And that's what a lot of people you know have to do. Yep, exactly. But what's really tragic, I think, is us wage earners conditioned to the fact, conditioned to believe that our home is our most prized possession, And through these really tumultuous times whereby interest rates are starting to rise and people are over indebted, what's really tragic is that you will try and protect that home at all costs.

Amy Taylor: 0:40

Well, hello human. Thanks so much for tuning in to the BU Get Paid podcast. I'm your host, amy Taylor, and I have one goal by being in your ears To explore as many conversations and perspectives as possible on stuff we did not learn in school, you know, stuff that would have actually helped a lot more of us thrive, rather than just survive as grownups in an often challenging and ever-changing world. As the title might suggest, this includes anything involved with knowing ourselves, understanding money and generally anything that might offer some insight into how we can all be happier humans With that in mind, wherever you're listening, you'll find links to some of the best resources I have personally found to help with all of those things. Sometimes I'll talk about these in a bit more detail, and I want you to know I will only ever recommend products, services and companies that I am a customer or user of myself.

Amy Taylor: 1:27

Now, we're all grownups here, and as such, you'll possibly hear the occasional use of grownup language. More importantly, anything discussed here is personal opinion and intended for conversational and educational purposes only, and should not be taken as financial or investment advice. That's housekeeping done. Let's get into what I hope is some helpful chat. So, mr Dazby, let's just get into it.

Amy Taylor: 1:54

You reminded me how cool online communities are, because when I started sort of learning, affiliate marketing and doing all that kind of side hustling stuff almost 10 years ago now, i felt like I met the best friends straight away, just because everyone's got this thing in common and Bitcoin is exactly the same. And I feel like when you and I connected through the Bitcoin live team ahead of the event shout out to those guys Australia's first Bitcoin only conference. If you're anywhere near Australia within traveling distance, make sure you get your bum there next year, because it was so great. And then so we connected to a panel, spoke on the phone or spoke on Zoom or Google Meet or something not long after we got introduced, and it was just like, oh, i've known you for years, it was great And that's what.

Amy Taylor: 2:44

I feel like this community is like We're a bit of a cult, but a great one. So the reason I wanted to talk to you you are the first person I've interviewed for this podcast with zero prep, which feels really great. I'm kind of just going left field. I'm not going to prepare, because the conversations we've had have been so kind of like a perfect example to me of you know, middle-class working guy, family man, you're a tradie, just doing everything you can to be a good, stand-up citizen who's providing for his family, And then you get onto Bitcoin and you get fired up about all the things that make it amazing And I feel like that's a really good just a good conversation to have.

Amy Taylor: 3:32

So before we go back to you being a tradie and all the rest of it, because there's things that I want you to explain to me that I think the average person just doesn't understand anyway in relation to Bitcoin, but also just in relation to life But tell me how you came to Bitcoin, because everyone's got their story and kind of your base in Australia you live up in Cairns, which is right at the top end of the country. For anyone who doesn't know, Tell me how you got to Bitcoin and when, and what that journey's been.

Daz Bea: 4:03

It's a long story. I'll try and make it as succinct as possible, but I appreciate the words, appreciate thoughts and appreciate you having me on. For a start, i came to Bitcoin from a bit of a hustling investment type of lens And I'll go back to, i guess, my early 20s. I was in sales all my life and sort of got to a point where I realised my base wage salary wasn't going to cut it if I wanted to bring little humans into the world And really where I started to look at my life, look at my income, look at what I could do to hustle And, coming from a working class family, i haven't come from capital. So one thing I learnt quickly is I had lots of really what I thought were cool ideas, but lack of capital to execute anything. So that was really something I wanted to change in my life, and one way to do that in Australia is to go through a trade. So that's you know they tradies make good wage typically in this country. So I always wanted to be a sparky and at the ripe old age of 29, i decided that's what I was going to do.

Daz Bea: 5:21

So I complete career shift took I took three years. I was a late bloomer and so I did a lot of research on what I could do. And it was around that time that we were starting to think about family wife and I, so to bring kids into the world. So I knew I could only do it at the public utility, because apprentices get paid shit house in Australia. So I knew what I needed to earn to at least try and keep bread on the table. And it took me three years of hustling to get in as a tradie. Because I come from I was older, i come from a sales background. They looked at my resume. I didn't really apply myself in high school. I scored bad grades. So they're looking at my resume and going this guy's not a good fit for a tradie. So it was one of those things just tenacity and just keep turning up.

Daz Bea: 6:17

Well, not from a sparky perspective. So you need to have a certain level of math and physics before they let you through For being a sparky, otherwise you quickly zap yourself and you don't survive very long. So that's generally the way things go. But it's one of those things just been apparently asked like just keep rocking up right And they eventually say I'm sick of interviewing this guy, Just give him a shot. So just to help myself, I took on some study as well. So I was doing an advanced diploma through an associate degree. It was through USQ, So basically like your first two years of a four year uni degree in engineering. So I did that to try and make myself more attractive And at the end of the day that's kind of what got me over the line. Fast forward. I ended up doing my trade for years.

Daz Bea: 7:17

Yeah, sure.

Amy Taylor: 7:18

I think we've got a bit of a delay, but that'd be right. It's bearable. So you were studying to become a sparky at uni. Was that a round job? Because I'm assuming you had to keep working and earning money whilst you were studying. Is this what you mean?

Daz Bea: 7:33

Yeah, I worked full time as a cigarette salesman. Have you ever seen that movie? Thank You for Smoking. I always liked that guy, but that's cool.

Amy Taylor: 7:43

Wow Okay, continue So fast forward. You've become a sparky Go into the industry.

Daz Bea: 7:48

I've become a sparky, i have to move Around. That time there was a lot of political movement because we're a Queensland-owned utility, so there was no jobs basically. So I had to pack up my little family and move down to Mackay And it was in Mackay on single wage two young kids The youngest one was three months and started struggling a little bit as far as Because I wasn't a tradie anymore, i was earning a wage in an office. I was employed more on my engineering degree background, not so much hands-on tools And we're struggling a little bit.

Daz Bea: 8:23

And I read a book called The Barefoot Investor So it's a bit of an Aussie classic in sort of middle-class circles And one of the outcomes, one of the things he talks about in that book, was a side hustle, so trying to leverage off your skills and become a freelancer. So I was kind of like, well, what could I do? I had to go and get a contractor's ticket if I wanted to be a sparky sort of outside of work, which involved a little bit more study, a little bit more fees and all that sort of thing. And I've been playing guitar since I was eight years old. So I thought, look, newtown, i'll grow a beard, i'll go out and start hustling and start doing some buskin and some gigs And if I'm shit, i'll just shave it, walk away And nobody knows me. So that was the sort of the rationale behind it. And I started well, i'm behold, getting a pretty good name for myself locally and was doing upwards of three gigs a sort of weekend and earning really good side hustle cash. And then I'm like okay, what do I do with this cash now? And I was a bit of a fork in the road in my uni career. So I'd ended up doing a little bit more study.

Daz Bea: 9:33

And I was at this fork in the road whereby I was like, do I continue doing? I was used to doing 20 hours of study a week for this degree, on top of working and sort of you know, balancing. The family had to help to our wifey who kept it all running. And I was like, well, i can either finish my degree or I can put that study into putting this extra money that I'm going put that to work. So I made a promise to myself that I would learn how to invest. So I spent that 20 hours a week.

Daz Bea: 10:06

Instead of reading engineering books, i decided I was going to read investing books. So I promised myself I would do 12 months before I invested a single penny, a single dollar. So I did that. Yeah, well, you know it was one of those things I was. I had enough knowledge around investing to know if you don't do it well, you'll really fuck it up for yourself. So I you know I hope you don't mind me swearing on your pod, by the way, but you'll get that. That's what I do. So, yeah, cool. So I did that.

Daz Bea: 10:42

I threw, you know, 12 months worth of investing, sort of at it. And then I had all of these. I had spreadsheets worth of, so I understood how to do discount cash flow analysis by the end of that. And I had all these spreadsheets with Google Finance Tickers coming in, and I had the whole ASX 200 on this spreadsheet with all the Tickers coming in to try and find what was good value in that. So I come from the sort of Warren Buffett value investing mindset whereby you try and identify good companies with decent balance sheets, decent moats, for cheap price. I'm pulling faces, just as a disclaimer.

Amy Taylor: 11:22

I'm pulling faces because hat off to you. you're hustling, you've got your why, you've got your reason. But I'm pulling faces because it's just like, it just sounds like so much work Like this is a side hustle.

Daz Bea: 11:33

That was a little way.

Amy Taylor: 11:34

In something like it wasn't a passion project, you weren't doing something because you loved it, it was something you felt compelled that you had to do to make enough money to support a young family. It sounds bad shit, boring to me, but like I'm just cross-refer or cutting in at this point because it's like no human being should have to put that amount of time and energy into something that they don't genuinely love. You know, just to survive. I gotta admit though I do kind of love it.

Daz Bea: 12:05

Otherwise I wouldn't do it. So I guess there's that sort of Yeah, but you're right, i often tweet that out, actually as a little sort of comment that you know, everyday people shouldn't have to have a degree in finance in order to beat inflation, you know, and that's what a lot of people you know have to do. Yeah, exactly. And so I guess, just to wrap all, that up.

Amy Taylor: 12:32

That's what I meant, sorry.

Daz Bea: 12:35

No, you're right. So it is delays, probably causing a little bit of you grief, but I guess, just to wrap all that up, i got to this point whereby I realised that there was nothing to buy as far as value investing is concerned, and I came to the quick realisation that the money was broken And that input is so critical when you're valuing other assets in order to try and you know, like I said, try and beat inflation, and the input is the To get the growth the interest rate Exactly And when there's oppressing interest rates.

Daz Bea: 13:08

That's where I tore the lid off how money works, because, you know, I thought my spreadsheets were broken, There was nothing to buy And I thought I've done something wrong here. But what was really wrong was the input into that formula and its interest rates.

Amy Taylor: 15:10

So, in simple terms, you're basically trying to. What sort of time horizon were you learning to invest with in mind?

Daz Bea: 15:21

Long term. I've always been accumulating for retirement. Definitely yeah And optionality.

Amy Taylor: 15:30

So when you say you. Yeah, income streams.

Daz Bea: 15:37

Yeah, exactly, Just trying to increase cash flow full stop with a long term sort of time horizon, Like at some stage through there as well. I was looking at my superannuation going geez, this isn't enough to retire on, doing all the calculations of where I was in life, accelerating that out, having an idea of where I wanted to be I don't want to be working until I'm 67, but it was looking like that was going to be inevitable. That was going to happen. So I was like shit, you need to do something.

Amy Taylor: 16:11

And so just to break it down again so a lot of people listening to this might understand what you mean without having it explained. But the input of interest rates being that you had a mortgage and you have other debts with interest rate and you can't invest to beat what they are likely to do. It's a good time to be talking about this after what's happened in the last year in most Western countries. Right? Everyone just got carried away thinking that mortgages would be 2% 3% forever, so it's probably relevant.

Daz Bea: 16:39

So when you do a discount cash flow analysis.

Daz Bea: 16:43

Basically what that means is you're trying to value your stock and you're trying to say, okay, if BHP was trading for $45, what the hell does that actually mean, right? So when you go and you value a business or you value anything or you value any other asset, what you're doing is a comparison rate between your quote unquote risk-free rate of return. So if your risk-free rate of return is government bond interest rates, that's basically the yardstick by which you compare all other assets. So it makes sense, if you can lend the government let's say 5% if you can lend the government money at 5% and that's quote unquote the risk-free rate of return they can print it out of senior and pay you back at any time. Theoretically they won't default. So these are risk-free, that's your bar. And then if you go out on the risk curve, so you wanna go out into stocks of a company, then it stands to reason that you're gonna want a rate of return that's higher than the 5%. So you're always comparing against that risk-free rate of return.

Daz Bea: 17:44

So when they suppress interest rates, down to 0, it has an inverse effect on the price you're willing to pay for all other assets and they go to infinity. So as interest rates approach zero, stock valuations go to infinity, and that's the comparison rate and how that works. So when you're navigating investments, you're always comparing back to what do I get for taking on zero risk. It's arguable.

Amy Taylor: 18:13

Yeah, yeah, it took a long time for me to join these dots, but in my head, the way I just think of it now, especially having been through one and a bit Bitcoin cycles of four years the way I look at it in real, simple terms is that when the government print money or create more money and chuck it out into the system, it basically bypasses those who don't own assets and ends up in the hands of those who do. And in real, simple terms, if we take the COVID example and everyone's stuck at home or now rents are going up I was just talking to my neighbor the other day and he's a trader, he's a plumber. That very similar situation family guy got way ahead. They had about five years left on their mortgage and he just told me that they got told the other week. It's now about 14, 14 years instead of five. Like that's how much it messes with people's lives. And so, in simple terms, the way I've been explaining it to people because most of us don't get this we don't sit down for 12 months with textbooks in our free time after work and study it We just hoped God will be okay and whatever. But in simple terms, i've just been explaining it to people like well, imagine you're him and you've done everything right.

Amy Taylor: 19:27

If your mortgage goes up because of interest rates, that extra $200 that you might have been investing or that you might have been spending on something else and being very sensible with is now the roof over your head.

Amy Taylor: 19:39

You've got no choice, it has to be paid, and so that extra 200, your mortgage goes up. It's basically going through you, through the person who had the asset, to whoever owns the asset, which in this instance is the bank. Right, it's just. It flows through currency flows. So when they produce more currency, it just flows where it wants to go, and they know where they want it to go, so it just goes back to them. So it might sound very conspiracy theory, but I didn't know any of this two or three years ago, like I'd always been good at making money, but I had no idea what it actually was or how it works or where it comes from. And so I think you know, for someone like you who's actually gone and studied it but still couldn't make it work, it's like, well, who's winning? Oh, and then it becomes very clear who does.

Daz Bea: 20:26

Yeah, that's right And to your point too. Like conspiracy theories, like it doesn't even you know, it's actual fact that it happens and it's just based on incentives and agendas. So, like the people making these decisions, they're so close to the spigot of where that money gets injected that they don't see a problem. They don't know what it's like to earn wages and live pay to pay. They just simply don't. It's just that, that far removed from the reality that you can understand or, i guess, appreciate that you know from their rosy, rose-colored glasses. There's no issue. You know the system is working perfectly. They don't get fired.

Amy Taylor: 21:06

They don't get help. Yeah, they don't get fired, they don't get help. There's no consequence for their actions. If they're in government jobs and they're out of a job at the end of a term, they still walk away with an ongoing salary. It's just not the real world, but they're supposed to represent the people of the real world. So I think the reason I'm saying conspiracy theories is the minute you start saying they and they're in control.

Daz Bea: 21:29

Yeah.

Amy Taylor: 21:31

People can turn around and go. Oh, you know, you can't blame the government for your financials.

Amy Taylor: 21:34

So they're like no, no, no. I'm well aware that there's the opportunity, i'm all for it. I'm a coach in that space. Like, go out there, create your own business, i'm all for that. But the realization that we're all working with this money, that even if you're doing really well for yourself, you're punished for it, essentially by a system that just doesn't reward productivity or contribution to society. Of course there's ways to get ahead, but it shouldn't involve And what's one of the real tragedies?

Amy Taylor: 22:05

All the funds of textbooks and money at risk to get ahead.

Daz Bea: 22:08

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It is crazy when you sort of look back at some of the things that people have to do to try and keep abreast of this thing. But I think what's really tragic about this whole environment we're navigating right now whereby we're going through a period of financial repression, which basically means that they'll hold interest rates below the rate of inflation to try and erode away the debt. And that's why interest rates are starting to creep, because we do have high inflation But they won't get above inflation. So interest rates through this period they can't afford for the interest rates to get above inflation. Otherwise they don't get any benefit from the erosion of the debt through that inflationary mechanism.

Daz Bea: 22:56

But what's really tragic, i think, is us wage earners conditioned to believe that our home is our most prized possession And through these really tumultuous times whereby interest rates are starting to rise and people are over-indeaded, what's really tragic is that you will try and protect that home at all costs.

Daz Bea: 23:22

So what ends up happening is you will erode your savings. Any excess cash flow that you have is eroded. Anything else you would have used to invest in other options is eroded because you're just trying to keep that roof over your head because we're so indebted And you'll erode that savings And by the time you may actually be forced to sell it, the market would have corrected as well. So it's a double-edged sword. So you've eroded all your savings just to try and keep it over your head, only to end up in a situation whereby you might actually have to sell that And then by that stage the lagging effect from peak interest rate they think that there's around 12 to 18 months lag behind peak interest rates to max pain in those markets. So you might be able to survive that 12, 18 month, only to end up having to sell it anyway, and by that stage the markets decline. So you haven't.

Daz Bea: 24:15

So in my mind and obviously, yeah, well, yeah, exactly, and not financial advice, but only stretch of the imagination. But if I was in that position I would try and sell that house as quick as possible. Obviously, you've got other issues then of high income, high rental markets and all that sort of stuff to battle, but at least then you've protected any savings or other investments you might have. You're selling out of the market at its highs Yeah.

Daz Bea: 24:47

Exactly and your principal place of residence you don't have to pay capital gain on right, so you may be able to write it out is just a strategy to keep in mind and to think about each their own and different priorities. And for me you ask my wife that is the exact opposite of what she would do, right, because she's very much more wants that safety net of having a roof over the head for the kids and all that sort of thing which I get. I totally get it So, but it's just another example of being hard to navigate for everyday people.

Amy Taylor: 25:23

Why do you think it is Like? I mean, you're around the same age as me, millennials, or just on the cusp of millennials, and Jen?

Daz Bea: 25:32

Hang it on.

Amy Taylor: 25:33

Jen X, no, jen, yeah, whatever the one above us is.

Daz Bea: 25:36

I think I'm like one of the oldest millennials say Yeah, do you think it's just conditioning from?

Amy Taylor: 25:43

because it's what our parents did? and our parents were of a generation where interest rates made it worth owning a home And they hadn't. The house prices hadn't got out of control because of inflation and because of government printing money. It's been happening for decades and for centuries. If you look back and you read the Bitcoin stand and you go down the rabbit hole like we have. But do you think it's just? I think it's conditioning from our parents' generation because for them it was the right move, For them it was doable, It was affordable. And so do you think it's just conditioning Because Australia seems particularly obsessed with real estate?

Daz Bea: 26:23

So, going back to what I said earlier in this conversation around trade, he's getting paid. Well, That's only a condition of market conditions. So I think it's multifaceted. I think it's what you were saying about the parents. That's the environment they grew up in. But we've always encouraged housing as a means to save in this country, largely based on the fact that if we take away mining, the only other thing we really have is construction. We're sort of growing population over time. It's quite a small base living quite coastal. I think there's a lot of inputs into that.

Daz Bea: 26:53

A lot of government policy has been shaped around housing For people to get ahead. In this country it was very, very typical for people to be able to. People understand real estate. People don't understand equities, People don't understand how to value companies, But they understand number go up in real estate terms. We were benefited from the 1980s through to the early 2000s of property prices doubling every 10 years. It was a no-brainer. If you didn't do it, you're deemed silly because it was so evident that those asset appreciation was going to keep going. That's what the real tragic thing is around real estate is You go and have a look at Robert Kiyosaki, the author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, one of the most successful real estate investors of all time.

Daz Bea: 27:46

He shakes his head at our policies. He shakes his head at that whole thought around negative gearing. He's like your job is to increase cash flow. Celebrating negative cash flows is a crazy, crazy notion. Yet in this country, People think It's a real gap in knowledge as well. People think negative gearing is I get it back at tax time. It's like no, it just reduces your taxable income. You're not getting dollar for dollar back at tax time if you've got negative gearing. It's the crazy celebrated notion of reducing your cash flows over time and hope and praying that your capital appreciation, your house price, goes up in value over time. Since 2008, that just hasn't been the case.

Amy Taylor: 28:31

No, and hoping that you don't need to suddenly liquidate any of that money quickly because that's not necessary. Prophecy is not liquid cash, but what you were saying is not about the book. Kiyosaki, that was the book that Go on Liquidating.

Daz Bea: 28:49

I was going to say, yeah, it's a really good point as well Through this period. We just spoke about that terminology financial repression So it's really tempting to go and lever up. It's because your debt will get inflated away as well Why interest rates are below the rate of inflation. Over time. Your $400,000 mortgage on your investment property may not seem so bad if a loaf of bread is $1,000, which is the environment that we're trying to navigate through over the next couple of years. But the real problem, the real danger with having excess leverage in these environments is that it's going to be tumultuous in the interim, like our underlying value of currency, you could argue, is failing, and there's a really good book called When Money Dies about the Weimar Republic and the hyperinflationary event, and you can see the price of gold through that period of really high inflation was whipsawing around, and that's exactly what you've got to be worried about.

Daz Bea: 29:53

Having too much leverage in this environment is your serviceability. So there's a recession looming. That means lots of jobs. So how confident are you that you are going to be able to service all of that debt And, mind you, the other really dangerous precedent that we saw through the COVID lockdowns with these rental moratoriums as well. So if there's really major financial duress, you will not be able to raise your rents. There's already, i know, property investor in Canada. They're limited to raising their rents to 2% a year while they're running through high interest rate environments. So it's really dangerous for the middle class because we try and get ahead And then it's very easy to wipe us out because we just don't have excess cash flows in order to be able to cover off all that liability.

Amy Taylor: 30:45

It was really interesting as well. Going back to what you said about the Weimar or Weimar Republic, you know I've tweeted and posted. During COVID I wrote an article about when Australia got real crazy. That was I mean. That was my awakening. I guess I just started to.

Amy Taylor: 31:01

At the start of COVID I was still doing videos on a YouTube channel for my affiliate marketing business and just doing content, talking about stay at home. You know I was still very much do, as you're told, and gradually you just started to question things And I wrote an article about. I don't know what the answer is, but the mandates just didn't seem like it was not this. I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like not this because on the ground, on the street, seeing people tearing each other apart was quite frightening and just wrong. It was just I don't, i don't know what the answer is, but people rowing in the streets, it just got crazy. And I referenced Nazi Germany, which gets, you know, a reaction, and I guess that's part of the reason to use it, because you need people to pay attention. But what people don't realise is that reference is not to do with the Holocaust. It's what was the environment or what was the climate, the cultural climate leading up to a period where it was possible to get people to do such atrocious things to one another? Right, and that's what frustrates the hell out of me. It's like people were financially struggling, people were desperate, And when you and they were confused.

Amy Taylor: 32:16

And a couple of episodes ago I was talking to a friend and coach of mine, Emma, who's you know she's a woo, woo energetics person And she's she's phenomenal, but we talked about something completely different, but she, she made the comment you know, when you put someone in a state of it's the manipulation tactic. You know, when you put someone in a state of confusion and offer them certainty, it works. And I feel like that's just whether it's by design or or just a slow thing. That's happened over decades.

Amy Taylor: 32:47

People are so confused about money that they just go I don't care, i surrender, which is exactly the words my neighbour used the other day about he goes. I hate money, i hate the fact I have to think about it so much. And you know, they were five years away from clearing their mortgage. They're in their 40s Young family. Now it's 14 years. It's just wrong, and I think so many people do just get so confused and overwhelmed by it, they do just hand over responsibility and go whatever. And so your your Germany reference. I think it's just so important that we keep making those references because it is jarring and it's controversial. But the point is, when people are put in a state where it becomes easier to just convince them, it's okay to behave in a certain way because that's the answer. When it's not good, it doesn't end well.

Daz Bea: 33:38

No, exactly, and I think that's when you know some of these conspiracy theories start to take a little bit of hold, right And and and people start to question. Because it's quick, you know, man search for meaning. It's another, another reference to Nazi Germany. Right, written by Victor Frankel was the author of that book And it's just a really good example of like. People need meaning, people need to look for explanations And when you see, you know some of the controls that are coming down, or some of these policies that come down, that that inadvertently affect how you navigate the world and how you navigate, how you see value in this world, then you start to question, you start to go why you know and you uncover, you know you'll start looking under some rocks that you wish you never under overturned. You know because the system is. There's issues, there's big issues.

Amy Taylor: 34:33

Yeah, which brings us onto Bitcoin. So when did you find Bitcoin? Because it's only when you, you know, it's only when you've ripped off the lid, i think you said, or gone down the rabbit hole or looked under the rocks and you're like, oh, this is depressing And that's probably why most people stop looking. But then you find out about this thing that actually offers such a ridiculous amount of hope and optimism, and that's what Bitcoin Live was about. You know, you just walked into a room full of optimism, hope, enthusiasm, energy, all sorts of people, all sorts of opinions, doesn't matter. What you believe politically, religiously, doesn't matter. Money affects everyone, and it was just this energy. So, yeah, so how did you find Bitcoin? When did that happen?

Daz Bea: 35:24

So it was after the COVID shock, right. So the COVID lockdowns, i actually, you know, being sort of plugged into macro and finance, i started to understand, like I was saying, to understand the money input into those valuations. And then I had all these spreadsheets and I had like something out of that ASX 200. I had three stocks on my list out of all of that that deemed were quite on quite fair value, right, but they had distressed balance sheets. And then the COVID we had a 40% drawdown in the ASX and in the stock market And after a 40% drawdown I'm rubbing my little hands together because I'm sitting on some excess cash. I'm like, yes, here's my opportunity, here's my buffet, here's my buffet opportunity, swoop in, yeah.

Amy Taylor: 36:12

Yeah.

Daz Bea: 36:13

And there were six stocks instead of three After a 40% drawdown And I was going there's something fundamentally wrong here. And that's really where I started looking at macro and how money works and the money history. And I was listening to a lot of Preston Pish from E-Valium Investing Podcast going back through their back catalog And that's where I stumbled across Bitcoin. So I'm like the money's breaking became probably a bit of a gold bug, really started like and this was all very quick, mind you. So I'm a bit of a vicious reader, so once I get on a topic, i absolutely devour books when I'm motivated And so quickly went from gold bug to what a gold fail, to holy shit, there's Bitcoin.

Daz Bea: 36:57

Maybe I need to own some of this. Then the inevitable shit coinery that goes along with Bitcoin. You're like, what if I'm wrong? Maybe I should diversify? What if Bitcoin's not the only thing? And then coming full circle. So it was only then, later on, when I started trying to teach my friends and family and writing articles, because I had many, many, many conversations about what I discovered, what I was learning, how the money works, all of these things.

Amy Taylor: 37:23

And then I thought why don't you all understand?

Daz Bea: 37:29

So, instead of sounding like a break in record, i thought I'd write it down, and then I've got a reference for my thoughts around why. And then I was just starting to loot Bitcoin in as an option for people to consider as a portion of their portfolio very much from just the respect that you don't need a big allocation to protect everything else that you might have going on. You know, one or two percent And then quickly finding that, once you do start to understand it, really start learning about it and trying to poke holes in it. So I tried to break it right.

Daz Bea: 38:00

So, being an engineer, technically minded and having a little bit of experience with, i wouldn't say I understand the code necessarily, but I do know enough about programming and electronics and so forth to really start trying to say, okay, when does this thing fail? And realizing I couldn't break it where I'm like, holy shit, what have we stumbled upon here? Right? And then, by the same token, i couldn't say the same for the other shit coins. So I was trying to write an article and I was trying to tell people why I owned Ethereum, and I couldn't say the same things. I couldn't say anything about the scarcity. I couldn't say anything about the decentralization or the protocol or the the road as money, as money, exactly. And then that's when I went basically Bitcoin maxi and just got rid of all my shit coins and went all in on Bitcoin.

Amy Taylor: 38:52

And again, you kind of have to go through that, I think, or some people have to go through it. If they get, you know, the money goggles go on and you get greedy. It's human, and I've stopped trying to stop people doing that because it's like you almost have to. Everyone needs to go through some degree of pain to fully appreciate it, as long as it doesn't completely put them off, and that's the frustrating thing about a lot of this stuff. It's, i think, so many people are put off for life because of a bad experience. The people that introduced me to some shit coin already start with, but I'm grateful because it's what got me into Bitcoin. I haven't touched it since 2017. Just like, oh awesome.

Amy Taylor: 39:33

I mean they're very successful, They're fine, But it's sad, you know.

Amy Taylor: 39:39

But to go to change tack a bit with I've actually thought you'd been in Bitcoin a lot longer than that To change tack a bit one of the big questions that yeah, one of the big questions that always comes up which I want to talk to you about, because you are a sparky or you know you work for an energy company. It's a government owned entity And when we first spoke and this is me being a bit selfish and leveraging everything I believe about being you and getting paid, especially because you're someone who chose to change career and try something new in order to make more money, and you know it's not quite gone how you would have thought, but thankfully you found Bitcoin, so you'll be fine. When we spoke the first time, i was like, why aren't you just waxing lyrical about Bitcoin to everyone you work for and getting them to like mine it and use the grid And I don't even know how the grid works And like, because the average person will just question they've got all the FUD and all the mainstream media narratives in their head about Bitcoin users. Lots of energy, yes, and that's bad. Why? Because I couldn't have told you two years ago how that energy in my house works? I don't think most people could. We just take it for granted.

Amy Taylor: 40:54

So tell me, break down in simple terms, how the grid works. And it was funny. Just before I got on with you, i saw an Alex Epstein video. For anyone who doesn't know who he is, look up his book Fossil Future And his little clip on Instagram. He was on Fox News was saying how the government have had us under the control of the grid. As in, we are forced to use the grid. So tell us how the grid works and your role in it and what you do, and then I'm going to bully you into telling your bosses to mine Bitcoin from it.

Daz Bea: 41:33

Well, yeah, so there's a bit unpack there, but grids So generally how grids work, is you have Generational assets dispersed geographically across a state. So for us in Australia, our whole eastern sort of seaboard is connected with transmission. We have a variety of different generational assets, so typically most of our base load power comes from coal. In this country We also have gas, and then obviously we have other assets which are obviously beginning to proliferate in the renewable space, like wind, solar, hydro, so they will be spread out everywhere.

Daz Bea: 42:18

We are. We're really lucky and we're probably one of the only countries that will actually be able to pull off a net zero approach with 100% renewables without nuclear. So nuclear is not a power generational asset in this country. It's not even on the table for discussion in this country, much to my dismay, because I believe there's a bit in that, but I won't get sidetracked on that Topic just yet. And so the problem is with generation is you need to get that to your consumer, and here you get that to the consumer is via a grid. So you have a couple of different levels on the grid. One is transmission, so transmission is really high voltage.

Daz Bea: 42:56

So the problem with transporting electrons to people who use them is that electrons flowing through a conductor are conducting medium, so typically your poles and wires, your wires through the air. If you have a lot of current, that generates a lot of heat and there's a lot of waste. So what you need to do is boost the voltage. So power is directly proportional to voltage and current. So if you can change any one of those two parameters, if you have really high current, you have really high heat. If you can lower your current, you need to boost your volts because they're directly proportional. So you boost your volts really, really high and it allows you to transmit that power really long distances, minimizing your loss because you're lowering your current doesn't generate as much heat, it's quicker. So you do that through substations. So what you do is you would generate at a certain voltage and then use a substation big, big transformer. So there are your big yards that you see, your drive paths, you see all the towers coming in. You've got big pieces of plant within those compounds. So those power transformers will step that voltage up. We jump onto the poles and wires and we transport that where that needs to go And then we will step down into major sensors. So you will have bulk supply transmission lines going all up the coast, and I'll use Kansas as an example. That's where I'm from. So we've got a couple of different bulk supply points. These transmission lines come into bulk supply and these are really key, critical pieces of infrastructure. They're substations And then we step that down to a distribution level of voltage.

Daz Bea: 44:29

So we step that typically down from 275,000 volts. So you're socket in your houses, you definitely don't want to touch that. So it's either 275 or 132. That's right, cooks you pretty good. 132,000 volts is also typical for transmission, and then we step that down to sub-transmission and then we disperse that out. We've got a little substations in all around your town And they're typically at 66 or 33 kilovolts, so 66,000 volts, and then we step that down again to distribution type network, so that's in Queensland's typically 22,000 or 11,000 volts And that's what you see on your normal wooden poles and wires that go through your neighborhoods and so forth. We do an underground or we do it above ground And then at each sort of location and you could pretty much just call this every street, for example we'll step that down again. You'll have a pole mounted transformer or those big green boxes called pad mount transformers And that's stepping the voltage down from 22,000 volts down to 240,415, and 240 is what goes into your house.

Amy Taylor: 45:43

Yeah, exactly.

Daz Bea: 45:44

Yeah, so that's your grid A lot there.

Amy Taylor: 45:46

I did not know a lot of that. So the I think a lot of people wouldn't have known that, And this podcast is all about the things we don't learn at school. I will be telling children, if I happen to be with any children, do you know what they do? That's what it does. Now I feel like I've learned something fantastic, but the big thing being, along that massive process, there is an oversupply or a certain amount of lost wasted power right, which people don't realize.

Daz Bea: 46:15

Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of inputs specifically sort of leading to where Bitcoin mining fits into grids and grid forming.

Amy Taylor: 46:26

Yeah, exactly.

Daz Bea: 46:27

Okay. So I'll use renewables as an example. So when we have increase in renewables and most global governments are pushing towards trying to increase their use of renewables so wind and solar the problem with both of those technologies is they're really unreliable as far as they're non-consistent. So Queensland Energy Jobs Plan is a great example to sort of demonstrate They want to go completely or they're in goal is to go net zero, right? So let's have a look at what that looks like.

Daz Bea: 46:59

So if your wind generation is 30% efficient at best that's a fact. You can look that up 30% capacity efficiency at best for wind and about 19% is usable, yeah, and 19% for solar. So if your maximum demand and a maximum demand is a term that we use in the industry to determine, everyone gets home and they all flick their lights on, they're all cooking dinner. What is the grid demand? What is everybody drawing at the same time? So if your maximum demand is here and you, we need a grid that's three times the size. If we're going to go completely renewables and we'll ignore hydro for now, and battery storage, but we just talk wind and solar we'll need a grid that's at least three times the size of the capacity in order to be able to deal with that.

Amy Taylor: 47:52

Keep everyone on.

Daz Bea: 47:53

If wind's 30%, keep everyone on without rolling blackouts. So the question then lies what about when conditions are healthy? So there's your maximum demand, so we have to build our grid at that level. So what happens when everything's nice and healthy, the wind's blowing, the sun's shining and we've got all that excess capacity? Who's paying for that excess capacity to build out those grids and capitalize those infrastructure at such a massive scale? The answer is the energy or taxpayers, because we're going to offset all those costs. The government, exactly.

Amy Taylor: 48:26

They're going to pay for it. Who pays them?

Daz Bea: 48:28

Yeah, that's right. So one really big use case is for Bitcoin miners to come in and there's their maximum demand, here's our capacity, and we can soak up all of that excess capacity when the sun's shining and winds are blowing really, really well, and then we can monetize that excess energy. And then what happens if a big, massive storm blows in and all that solar gets dropped off? then we just send a signal to the Bitcoin miners to ramp down and they will basically just drop off the network. And now our capacity, our excess capacity, is within limits of our maximum demand and we avoid that rolling blackout.

Daz Bea: 49:08

The other really big use case is when we don't go 100% renewable, for example, but we've still got base load supply. So these coal generators and these generators that we use to form up the grid from the base level Texas is a good example of this they need a minimum amount of load in order to run. So if you've got a whole heap of generators running in parallel, if you don't give them enough load, they actually bog down. It's actually really dangerous for the plant over the life cycle of the plant. So if you're building out excess renewables on top of this grid, you're putting pressure well, you're putting less pressure on those generators in order to run, but you still want them to run because you still need that nice, safe base load.

Daz Bea: 49:50

We don't have three times the grid, right, so we've only got, but we're putting more and more infrastructure onto that. So there's another use case for them to go and soak up and take that excess demand when times are good and then give it back to the grid, essentially to say, okay, i've been using this, but now you guys can borrow it, and that's a massive, massive use case for shoring up the grid. And that's what's happening in Texas with ERCART. They've got excess renewables, they're starting to put more in, but they're still reliant on that base load supply, so they need to make sure that they've got enough generators running to cater for the worst case scenarios. And that's where they're using Bitcoin mining to soak up that excess capacity.

Amy Taylor: 50:35

And I think, for anyone who's not into Bitcoin, doesn't understand it, isn't interested or hasn't yet learned. Why is it? you know, the thing that's starting to really blow my mind is the crossover, which Michael Saylor talks about a lot, how Bitcoin as money crosses the physics and energy conversation, like it's literally turning energy into money, which is what humans do every day when they're working for a fixed income or for a salary or for a wage. You're turning your in, your energy into money, but it's not working because the money you are exchanging that energy for is broken. So that's when those pennies started to drop. For me, i was just like mind blown. This thing, you know, if you talk about I was as you were talking and talking about the surplus of energy that isn't being used.

Amy Taylor: 51:31

There's a lot of people out there who point fingers at the government or point fingers at the rich and say tax the rich, because they've got this big surplus of money. They should just give it to less, less wealthy or, you know, underprivileged people. The billionaires should just give their surplus of money away. And it's like, if that's your level of thinking, fine, whether you agree with it or not. Well, i don't agree with that level of thinking. But all that, that way of thinking, but if you have the ability to think, a surplus is wrong. Listen to that. Listen to what he's saying about how the energy to your house is supplied and why it's expensive at the moment because you're dependent on this grid. That is completely inefficient, completely Yeah.

Daz Bea: 52:14

So there's really really good point.

Amy Taylor: 52:16

There is so much waste and people are paying more for what they use. It just doesn't make sense.

Daz Bea: 52:23

Yeah, and there's probably something else to double back on which I didn't explain. The first pass with that, which is a really good point you brought up. When you want to turn your light on at home and you want to put your stove on, there has to be generational capacity at the ready already on, it's not at the generator end, we don't just switch on the switch.

Daz Bea: 52:42

Yeah, yeah, exactly So. We've got to have that spare capacity in the grid in order for you to be able to enable that maximum demand. So when everyone wants to turn on at the same time, we have to have those generators running. We have to have that spare capacity in the system in order to be able to provide those electrons for you. We can't invent them at a thin air, and that's really where I guess there's so much excess capacity and so much waste in that system when it's not being used efficiently. That's really where Bitcoin is coming to the fore with being able to directly monetize that excess capacity in a monetary good, and it's tying the physical and the digital realm together. The only way you can make that transfer between the physical and the digital realm is through energy transfer and energy usage And energy usage.

Daz Bea: 55:38

there's so many of these sort of woke agendas around using energy as wasteful, but there's a very high direct correlation between human flourishing and energy use. We should be looking to increase our energy use at every opportunity, and Bitcoin mining is the input to make that happen, particularly in these developing countries. Like it is so asinine, such a tragedy for us to be dictating to those developing nations that we've had decades worth of excess energy, we've been chewing fossil fuels and we've flourished as a result of that, and we have to hide to deny them those same opportunities, purely because some studies indicate a correlation between carbon and temperatures, which I've seen enough evidence to really question that as well. So it's all about these narratives and the agendas, and energy is such a game changer.

Amy Taylor: 56:50

Yeah, and money is, and we're probably starting to get into a conversation that you just can't possibly appreciate if you haven't learned about how money works. I'm trying to touch on little bits as much as possible in every conversation to try and join the dots, but you can't do it in an hour, you can't do it in two hours. I'm just hoping this podcast inspires enough of a curiosity for people to go. I kind of get what you're saying. I'll go and read a book and figure out the rest. Or, because everyone will get it differently, it's like advertising. You've got to hear it seven times or whatever before it actually sinks in.

Amy Taylor: 57:22

But I just think that energy conversation, especially from a tradie who's a family man who just gets it, you just get it, the energy conversation in a way that when we were talking the first time, i was just like this is so dumb And you know Bitcoin And I think I said you, why aren't you telling all your bosses about it?

Amy Taylor: 57:39

And you were like well, it's the government sensitive. But I feel like I hope, especially since going to Bitcoin alive and just the more you talk to other people, you're like this is not dangerous to talk about, this is just sensible. Why are people around the world suddenly struggling to pay their bills when we're literally wasting energy And I think Safer Dean talks about it in the Bitcoin standard, about the history of price controls, which is essentially what's happening. You know, there's in the chapter I don't know what era it was, don't ask me but all throughout history, when governments get involved in markets and manipulating, you have situations where farmers are producing too much, but they have to burn it and waste it because If they put too much of it into the market, it'll bring the price down. It'll be cheaper, for people Can't have that. It's just. It's just. This stuff is just so dumb when you start to see it for what it is.

Daz Bea: 58:37

And it is all related, right. So, as humans, you know, expending our time and energy for wages, it's, it's, it's. You know money is supposed to be a store of energy. It's a store of your time. You know, money, money is time plus energy. And as humans, yeah, money is a it's, it's a fundamental way of communicating value between each other.

Daz Bea: 59:02

And when somebody is pressing on that string, when somebody's importing and manipulating that for whatever reason economic stimulus or monetary policy, or whatever you want to call it at the end of the day, they're manipulating how we as humans interact. And that is, it's got profound effects on everything from society to wokeness, to, you know, to, to the bond between parents and children and war. Exactly, there are so many, there's so many things downstream of money that it's it's mind blowing, and that's what I really really we alluded to this earlier in the in the convo like Bitcoin is hope and it really fucking is. Like it's when, when you start to understand the downstream effects of the fuckery that goes on with money, it is diabolical, it is completely, it just erodes. It erodes the human condition And that's why you know we sound evangelical. But when you fix the money, you can literally fix the world. And when you start to realize that and we, you know, like, the Bitcoin Alive conference in Sydney was just it was it was optimism, it was a celebration of hope and love, and you know just good people who want, genuinely want, to fix the world.

Daz Bea: 1:00:20

And I, you know, it's one of these crazy, crazy things where I've never experienced that sense of optimism. And we've got the. You know, the smartest people I've come across in the last decade are Bitcoiners, like, and they don't have to be famous or you know these influences or anything like that. And when you have a conversation with people, you go, you know what. you fucking get it, mate. You know what's going on, you know what's wrong with the fundamental and we know how to fix it. And it is hope, and, and, and we're going to do it. It's only a matter of time, it's inevitable. And then get on the bus and benefit from it yourself. Step aside, you know.

Amy Taylor: 1:00:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not that these people are the smartest people because they're Bitcoiners Bitcoin's only 13, 14 years old. These people are the smartest people because they are engineers. They the original cypherpunks that you know. They're techie nerds, but now you've got people from all walks of life, myself included. I'm like this is why people are unhappy. I care about happiness. I'm a coach who does stuff based on data about people's happiness. Like it's, it's not, not okay And, like you say, everything is downstream of money. If individuals are struggling, their families are struggling, their relationships are struggling, you have that with 8 billion people, society breaks down. We're at war. Like it, just it is. Everything is downstream of broken money, and that's probably a perfect place to start. To wrap up, because you have. You said that you've written everything down that you learned on your journey. People can find that a looking glass. I will link it.

Amy Taylor: 1:01:52

So Dan most of us all use it all its knowledge for free, which I'm dead against. I think everyone should be paying dads for his stuff and we'll be continuing to talk about that so that you do somehow make some money out of it, because you've. It's unreal that website. There's so much on there lookingglasseducationcom. I'll link it. But just to wrap up, i always ask people a couple of questions. Obviously, the title of this podcast is be you get paid. What advice would you give your younger self at any age on those two things? So what advice would you give yourself about being you And what advice would you give yourself your younger self about money? Pick an age, any age.

Daz Bea: 1:02:36

Okay, be you. So I would definitely have started gigging for myself. A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot younger age I would have. I would have just done that because that's a gigging is a great side hustle. If you have a talent like singing or being able to play guitar and stuff it, it's a great way of earning a side income. I wish I had started earlier and it feels good, Makes people happy, and what's better than earning a decent side hustle wage while making people happy, you know, putting a small on their face.

Amy Taylor: 1:03:11

So I would say do that Your full time income.

Daz Bea: 1:03:17

Yeah, well, exactly exactly.

Daz Bea: 1:03:19

And you know, that's one of those things I think, like for gigging in particular, i wouldn't do it full time because it then becomes a job. So if you can pick your, pick your hours, pick your time and do that as a balance, then you, you know, i've kept the joy. So I've definitely overdone that over the years and now I'm, i'm comfy. I like to do one a fortnight or one wherever I'm sort of inspired to, to do more, and that's a good balance for me. That's really, that's really good.

Daz Bea: 1:03:46

And in terms of money, in terms of money, i'd be, i'd be less inclined to stay safe, you know, because it didn't work While we lived through. And, i would argue, inflation inflation has always been higher than interest rates over the last decades, right, and it was always sort of ingrained in me you've got to save, you've got to save, you've got to save. But putting it in the bank did absolutely zero for me over the last sort of 20 years. So I would have, i would have said you need to learn how to invest earlier and taking that pretty seriously. And again, this is why I think Bitcoin is hope, because it's actually giving power back to wage earners.

Daz Bea: 1:04:28

You don't have to have a finance degree to understand money, understand Bitcoin. You can start saving in Bitcoin and that is your savings account Like. If you do it and you iron out the volatility, you learn how to DCA dollar cost average into your investment. You take small chunks at it. It can be a small amount that you're not going to miss And you know it's putting the power back into wage earners. You don't need to know how to read the real estate market or the equity market or anything like that. You just need to dollar cost average into Bitcoin. Come back in four years time to see what it's doing.

Amy Taylor: 1:05:05

Good advice, and that's for our generation. I always just like to add on to that How great would it be if money just worked. I like I would love to get to a point I would love to. I don't think it's going to happen in our lifetime, but I hope I'm wrong. I don't have to even talk about money. It should just work.

Amy Taylor: 1:05:21

Like you you should be, we should be able to use a form of money that $1 is $1 forever, so that if you want to save, you can save, and that's your personal goal, because you're saving for whatever. Maybe you want to buy a house when you retire, or you want to not save and you want to invest. Whatever you want to do, the money should allow you to do that. And I think I always just like to paint the picture of the Tomas Drohle movie that I've shared a few times, where you know this utopian world where people can do what they want to do to contribute to society and enjoy it and not be in something they hate because that's the only way they're going to earn enough money. But for where we're at right now, in hopefully, what is a transition to that world? Yes, dollar cost average into Bitcoin?

Daz Bea: 1:06:07

Well, we're in a deflationary world Yeah.

Daz Bea: 1:06:13

Yeah for sure. We're in a deflationary world. We need deflationary currency. So we should be as humans we should be by this stage. We should be working less And we should be able to store our wealth in a very easy to understand asset that will increase in purchasing power over time to navigate that deflationary world where you make nice, sound economic valuations around what you choose to spend your money on And that will enable human flourishing through enabling us to be able to do whatever the fuck we want to do.

Daz Bea: 1:06:45

If your passion is art, you should be able to earn a living from art. People will find value in your art and they'll pay you for art. Right now, you can't make money in art unless you're the absolute elite end of that scale. Same with gigging. I'd love to be able to earn a living from gigging but, like I was saying, in order for me to do that I would have to be doing it seven days a week in order just to get by, and it shouldn't be like that. I should be able to do enough out of my music to be able to flourish and survive without having to make it such a big ordeal that it becomes a chore. So I think if we embrace a deflationary world, embrace deflationary currency. Ultimately, our world will be a beautiful, beautiful place.

Amy Taylor: 1:07:31

Oh, what a place to finish. I'm just going to finish there. Done Price of Tomorrow. I think you pretty much just articulated that whole book in a couple of rants. Thank you, so much. I will link all your handles and stuff and people can find you Cool mate. When they're on Twitter.

Daz Bea: 1:07:48

That was it. Yeah, well, exactly, exactly.

Daz Bea: 1:07:53

And you know, that's one of those things I think, like for gigging in particular, i wouldn't do it full time because it then becomes a job. So if you can pick your hours, pick your time and do that as a balance, then you know I've kept the joy. So I've definitely overdone that over the years and now I'm comfy. I can do one a fortnight or wherever I'm sort of inspired to do more, and that's a good balance for me. That's really good.

Daz Bea: 1:08:20

And in terms of money, in terms of money, i'd be less inclined to say safe, you know, because it didn't work. While we live through and I would argue, inflation has always been higher than interest rates over the last decades. Right, and it was always sort of ingrained in me you've got to save, you've got to save, you've got to save. And putting it in the bank did absolutely zero for me over the last sort of 20 years. So I would have said you need to learn how to invest earlier and taking that pretty seriously. But again, this is why I think Bitcoin is hope, because it's actually giving power back to wage earners.

Daz Bea: 1:09:02

You don't have to have a finance degree to understand money, understand Bitcoin. You can start saving in Bitcoin and that is your savings account Like. If you do it and you own out the volatility, you learn how to DCA dollar cost average into your investment. You take small chunks out of it. It can be a small amount that you're not going to miss And you know it's putting the power back in the wage earners. You don't need to know how to read the real estate market or the equity market or anything like that. You just need to dollar cost average into Bitcoin. Come back in four years time, see what it's doing.

Amy Taylor: 1:09:40

Good advice And that's for our generation. I always just like to add on to that How great would it be if money just worked. I would love to get to a point I would love to. I don't think it's going to happen in our lifetime, but I hope I'm wrong We shouldn't have to even talk about money.

Amy Taylor: 1:09:54

It should just work. Like you you should be, we should be able to use a form of money that $1 is $1 forever, so that if you want to save, you can save, and that's your personal goal because you're saving for whatever. You want to buy a house when you retire, or you want to not save and you want to invest whatever you want to do. The money should allow you to do that. And I think I always just like to paint the picture of the Tomas Strollite movie that I've shared a few times, where you know this utopian world where people can do what they want to do to contribute to society and enjoy it and not be in something they hate because that's the only way they're going to earn enough money. But for where we're at right now, in hopefully, what is a transition to that world? Yes, dollar cost average into Bitcoin.

Daz Bea: 1:10:42

Well we're in a deflationary world Yeah.

Daz Bea: 1:10:47

Yeah for sure We're in a deflationary world. Technology is inherently deflationary and we needed deflationary currency. So we should be as humans we should be by this stage. We should be working less And we should be able to store our wealth in a very easy to understand asset that will increase in purchasing power over time to navigate that deflationary world where you make nice sound economic valuations around what you choose to spend your money on And that will enable human flourishing through enabling us to be able to do whatever the fuck we want to do.

Daz Bea: 1:11:20

If your passion is art, you should be able to earn a living from art. People will find value in your art and they'll pay you for art. Right now, you can't make money in art unless you're the absolute elite end of that scale. You know? same with gigging. I'd love to be able to earn a living from gigging but, like I was saying, in order for me to do that I would have to be doing it seven days a week in order just to get by, and it shouldn't be like that. I should be able to do enough out of my music to be able to flourish and survive without having to make it such a big ordeal that it becomes a chore. So I think you know, if we embrace a deflationary world, embrace deflationary currency, ultimately our world will be a beautiful, beautiful place.

Amy Taylor: 1:12:06

Oh, what a place to finish. I'm just going to finish there. Done Price of Tomorrow, jeff Booth, you've pretty much just articulated that whole book in a couple of rants, so God I think Yeah. Thank you so much. I will link all your handles and stuff and people can find you Cool mate.

Daz Bea: 1:12:21

When they're on Twitter. I've been going too many rant.

Amy Taylor: 1:12:25

Hello, my friend, as someone who's not the best at finishing the things they start, thank you so much for making it to the end of this podcast. I hope you found it helpful. Maybe it piqued your curiosity on something new or even just made you smile for a few seconds. If any of those things apply here, then all my regular tech challenges and tantrums are well worth it to get this to you. If you heard anything at all that you think could help just even one other human being, there's a couple of things you can do that I would really and truly appreciate. Firstly, you can follow or subscribe wherever you're listening.

Amy Taylor: 1:12:59

On most podcast platforms, this is usually just a case of hitting a follow button or a plus sign on the main show page. This means you'll never miss an episode, which is hopefully a win-win for us both. Secondly, if you're feeling really generous, you can leave me a five-star rating or review wherever you're listening. And lastly, feel free to share an episode with a friend on social media. With any thoughts, feedback, suggestions or even criticism, It's okay, I can take it. I can help me using the handle at Amy Taylor Says to make sure I see it, and can thank you personally Any or all of these things genuinely mean more human beings see and hear these conversations. So again, thank you for being here and helping me with my mission with Be You, Get Paid to help as many people as possible know themselves, know money and be happy. See you next time.