"So it's not school, exactly, at home - where it's like "this is your teacher, these are your books - good luck!" It's like ok - well we have to learn math. We need to know some math - math is important for almost anything you do, because you have to understand your finances and if you're in to Bitcoin, you have to understand how the world works. You have to understand how interest works and all this stuff - you have to know some math! So we talk about that - you have to know some basics here. We'll probably need to do some financial education with our kids too - so it's not just going to be like math. It's going to be: "let's talk about how you make money and how money is made and what happens when you get a loan...."
_______________________________________
Dr Claire Honeycutt is a university professor who - ironically - doesn’t trust the school system to teach her kids. Her words not mine. Swipe for a tweet of hers that went viral explaining why... it seems she’s not alone in this stance!
She is an Associate Professor at a large research university with a PhD in Biomedical Engineering, with a specialty in Neuroscience. She does pedagogical (teaching) research focusing on improving student outcomes and persistence through psychological interventions, targeted at reducing anxiety and building community. Claire has taught thousands of students and coaches other teachers how to be more effective.
Claire also homeschools her two children (9 and 6yrs old) because she believes in self-directed, student-led learning. As an example, she loves classical style education where her children learn history - not just by exploring a culture’s activities, but also exploring their stories & art. Ultimately, Claire believes in non-coercive education and considers it her job to make something interesting enough to be chosen freely by her children.
Sign up for Dr Claire's newsletter: The Science of Kids
Follow her on Twitter (aka X) https://twitter.com/HippyMomPhD
_______________________________________
PARTNERS:
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GOING BIG ON BITCOIN?
➯ Need 1on1 help buying & managing your Bitcoin on a bigger scale? The team at The Bitcoin Adviser have been entrusted with managing over $1 billion in client assets since 2016. These guys will take you by the hand through any part of the Bitcoin world that you may feel unsure about and will take extra special care of you when you get in touch at https://beyougetpaid.com/btcadvice
KEEP IN TOUCH:
➯ Free Emails https://beyougetpaid.com/sunday
➭ Twitter: ...
"So it's not school, exactly, at home - where it's like "this is your teacher, these are your books - good luck!" It's like ok - well we have to learn math. We need to know some math - math is important for almost anything you do, because you have to understand your finances and if you're in to Bitcoin, you have to understand how the world works. You have to understand how interest works and all this stuff - you have to know some math! So we talk about that - you have to know some basics here. We'll probably need to do some financial education with our kids too - so it's not just going to be like math. It's going to be: "let's talk about how you make money and how money is made and what happens when you get a loan...."
_______________________________________
Dr Claire Honeycutt is a university professor who - ironically - doesn’t trust the school system to teach her kids. Her words not mine. Swipe for a tweet of hers that went viral explaining why... it seems she’s not alone in this stance!
She is an Associate Professor at a large research university with a PhD in Biomedical Engineering, with a specialty in Neuroscience. She does pedagogical (teaching) research focusing on improving student outcomes and persistence through psychological interventions, targeted at reducing anxiety and building community. Claire has taught thousands of students and coaches other teachers how to be more effective.
Claire also homeschools her two children (9 and 6yrs old) because she believes in self-directed, student-led learning. As an example, she loves classical style education where her children learn history - not just by exploring a culture’s activities, but also exploring their stories & art. Ultimately, Claire believes in non-coercive education and considers it her job to make something interesting enough to be chosen freely by her children.
Sign up for Dr Claire's newsletter: The Science of Kids
Follow her on Twitter (aka X) https://twitter.com/HippyMomPhD
_______________________________________
PARTNERS:
JOIN THE CREATOR ECONOMY!
➯ Inspired by these creators living their best lives?! Nothing is stopping you doing the same when you learn how to turn your existing skills and interests in to income streams online. Sign up for our 7Day Fast Start 'Modern Wealthy' curriculum using this link and I'll be there to cheer you on with monthly Q&A coaching calls 👉🏼 https://beyougetpaid.com/launch
FIRST TIME BUYING BITCOIN?
➯ Keep it SIMPLE with the Amber App by dollar-cost averaging in to Bitcoin on auto-pilot. Buy as little as $5 to get started and check out the super helpful education and articles all in the same app. Get $10 of free Bitcoin when you sign up at https://beyougetpaid.com/amber
GOING BIG ON BITCOIN?
➯ Need 1on1 help buying & managing your Bitcoin on a bigger scale? The team at The Bitcoin Adviser have been entrusted with managing over $1 billion in client assets since 2016. These guys will take you by the hand through any part of the Bitcoin world that you may feel unsure about and will take extra special care of you when you get in touch at https://beyougetpaid.com/btcadvice
KEEP IN TOUCH:
➯ Free Emails https://beyougetpaid.com/sunday
➭ Twitter: ...
So it's not school, school exactly at home, where it's like this is your teacher, these are your books, good luck. It's like okay, well, we have to learn math, you need to know some math. Math is important for almost anything you do, because you have to understand your finances and your own bits. When you have to understand how the world works, you have to understand how interest works and all of this you have to know some math. So it's like okay, when we talk about that, they're like you have to know some basics here, and we're probably going to need to do some financial education with our kids too. So it's not going to just be like math.
Speaker 1:It's going to be like okay, well, let's talk about how you make money and how money is made and what happens when you get alone.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love you so much you know like all these things you're playing.
Speaker 2:Well, hello human. Thanks so much for tuning into the BU Get Paid podcast. I'm your host, amy Taylor, and I have one goal by being in your ears to explore as many conversations and perspectives as possible on stuff we did not learn in school, you know, stuff that would have actually helped a lot more of us thrive, rather than just survive as grownups in an often challenging and ever changing world. As the title might suggest, this includes anything involved with knowing ourselves, understanding money and generally anything that might offer some insight into how we can all be happier humans With that in mind, wherever you're listening, you'll find links to some of the best resources I have personally found to help with all of those things. Sometimes I'll talk about these in a bit more detail, and I want you to know I will only ever recommend products, services and companies that I am a customer or user of myself. Now, real grownups here, and as such, you'll possibly hear the occasional use of grownup language. More importantly, anything discussed here is personal opinion and intended for conversational and educational purposes only, and should not be taken as financial or investment advice. That's housekeeping done. Let's get into what I hope is some helpful chat.
Speaker 2:I found your article on Does School Make Kids Hyperactive? It was such good timing because you think you wrote it it was March. I've got it here. I printed it old school Just because it's relevant to me personally, so it's a bit of a selfish inquiry. My partner has a six-year-old he's seven in November and he's mild but suspected ADHD. I think his mum's taking him through the diagnosis process at the moment. And again, that's just a label, but it was really interesting reading it right now because I was like, oh God, that sounds familiar and your five tips, we'll get into it. But first of all just give us a quick intro to you, where you are, what you do for a living, and then we'll get into the home school stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh sure, I am an associate professor at a large research institution here in the United States. My work has predominantly been in neuroscience and neurophysiology, so how the brain controls the body, and most of my research up until the last couple of years has been around helping people who have had a stroke try to develop new therapies for people who have had a stroke. So I'm really kind of a neuroscientist in training. But my more recent push and this is somewhat related to my new interests in home schooling my kids, which is a fairly new phenomenon for me, but I study a lot of pedagogy. So what is the best teaching practices in the classroom? And I've been interested in that for a very long time, but I haven't studied it as a scientist, but that's my new researches around that, particularly with students who have mental health disorders and so in the classroom.
Speaker 1:So in the US and this is probably also true in Australia are very close to true 50% of our engineering undergraduates screen positive for mental health disorder. So that's like anxiety, significant anxiety, depression, ptsd, those types of disorders, and so it's like half of our students right. And the universities tend to do things like giving flexible deadlines or flexible attendance and things like this, but no one's really evaluated if that's actually even good for some of these students and it might be good for in some cases, but not necessarily good in all cases and no one's really evaluated what are some of the best strategies that we can do to be supportive of students, and so that's kind of my new research. Realm is, in that, trying to figure out how to help students.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, when you said the 50% of graduates or undergraduates, did you say is that in a particular topic or just across the board, In engineering, in?
Speaker 1:specific though. Yeah, so I'm an engineering. I know I said neuroscience, but I'm housed within an engineering department and school, so mostly it's higher in engineering, but it's not so different from other disciplines. So if you look at the university wide, it's a little bit lower, but it's still pretty high in the western and we can talk about what's causing that. But the trouble is that it's there and that we should. Yeah, yeah, it does all the other bag of worms right, but it's certainly there and we aren't talking about how to talk to students and be with students and create good learning environments for students and not. A lot of times people want to do things that are nice, but that and that I'm, but we have to make sure that those things are the right things for students.
Speaker 2:Oh amen, yeah, tough love sometimes.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, but not always, so it's complicated.
Speaker 2:We have to study it first, instead of we just do willy-nilly things, yeah, and that's, I think, what I love reading in your tweets and your articles is just it's all about everyone being an individual, which is my language.
Speaker 2:You know, and the 100% and the I just I like to do a little bit of statistical research before I talk to people if it's relevant, and in your case I looked up.
Speaker 2:I always go straight to Gallup for the Gallup polls because I read a lot of their reports. For the coaching I do because it feeds directly into the modality that I coach with, based on people playing to their strengths, not worrying about their weaknesses, and I think you know that's so aligned with, I think, a lot of people who choose homeschooling because it's the institution is just not right for their children. And one of the polls that Gallup did recently or they've been they have an index for is trust in governmental institutions and one of those is public schools and I've just pulled up a graph here. I might link it in the show notes or send it to you to have a look at it. It's it's pretty straightforward, it's trust. On that indicator from the polls they've done has halved since 19,. Roughly 75. Trust in public schools like that that seems like a long period of time, but it's a generation right. It's our parents to us to our children?
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, and homeschooling is still predominantly illegal in the 70s. So I mean, it's just, it's a lots of changed.
Speaker 2:Lots of changes, yeah, and it's on the rise, albeit slowly, and it's. It's interesting because so many figures that the mainstream media spit out at the moment are so skewed, because it's like people forgot. The world shut down for three years, so of course, it rose in 2020. But that was that's probably a good place to start with with your journey with it, because you weren't homeschooling prior to that right you.
Speaker 1:It was something that everyone was forced into and you've embraced it Well yeah, and that was kind of a weird thing actually for us because we we were having we were having such a different I apologize if there's a we were having such a different response to COVID than everybody else. So everybody was complaining and miserable and their kids were home and driving them crazy and we had never been happy, like I was like this, this and and it was such a different, it was just such an eye-opening experience and you know, I mean I I had felt, you know, my kids were, we thought we were awesome because we kept them out of daycare until they were nine months old. So now, of course, I look back and think that all of their time in daycare and school was was one of the biggest regrets. So I will always carry that with me and I'm so regret it. But you know, we've got lots of time with them now and you know, can't we learned things right.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I, I, you know they were in daycare and and doing that whole thing for for the whole time and my oldest had lots of was just you know, lots of anxiety. She obviously had anxiety. She was young, so it was hard to tell that that's what it was. Now I know more and I can say what she had was she just school was incredibly stressful. She was having lots of just outbursts. She just was really emotional all the time and it was just when they were home it was just trying to keep them. It was just.
Speaker 1:It was just really hard and I was really struggling, I felt depressed, it was really unhappy and miserable, and all that happened and the kids came home from school and, all of a sudden, we just felt full again and the kids had never been happier or more peaceful, and and I was like this is I just wasn't supposed to be away from my kids all the time, and I don't think they were supposed to be away from me all the time, and we just we just fell in love with it. And, and I remember so the summer of 2020 was before my birthday, I turned 40 and my husband said what do you want your 40th birthday? And I said I want to homeschool my kids. And and so, yes, that's cheap, because, because it's well, it's well. Maybe not, but it's not, but it's not cheap, actually right.
Speaker 1:So, like I bring in 40% of our money and so it's been, it's a, it's been a conversation and there's been a long you know process and trying to figure out that. But but you know, we were lucky because the university I was working at the university and everything was remote and you could teach online, and so I was like, well, there's never been a better time to just try this.
Speaker 1:I was like we need it we can put them back into school, you know. So we tried it and of course we fell in love and the kids won't go back until if they want to. Then we'll have that conversation with them. Sure, we're not, we won't force them to go to school.
Speaker 2:And you have two kids and they're eight and six. Is that right?
Speaker 1:They just so nine and six. But yes, nine and six, just just term nine.
Speaker 2:So so still like primary school, or what we would call primary school over here.
Speaker 1:Yes, still, still of an age where they're failing. It was five, and three Whoa. Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well they are yeah, so COVID. So that was you know when I I got out a lot of stuff because during COVID, because I'd be like I'm sorry I can't do that because I have a three-year-old running around, and they're like, oh yeah, that's fine. And of course for me I'm just like this is great. We're just kind of like playing here and and do our little work sheets and we print it off worksheets. We didn't know what we were doing. Home school ways. We changed into all sorts of things since then?
Speaker 2:Well, you were already working from home.
Speaker 1:Well, when the universe no, it wasn't. So I would say maybe I work from home one day a week because that's common I had to do a lot of writing, and it's better to do a lot of writing, great writing and that kind of stuff at home than it is when there's lots of people around and stuff.
Speaker 2:So, but I was on campus four days a week.
Speaker 1:Oh really, you prefer to go now, yeah.
Speaker 2:I need to go to a coffee shop when I want to do anything creative. I'm at home for my admin tasks that don't require the which? Which side of the brain, I don't know Left, whichever I am, I prefer noise. When I want to be creative, it's so yeah.
Speaker 1:So go on. Nowadays I would agree with you. I was going to say back when back, so it used to be my no one was at home, so I come home and it was really like there's nobody here. But now there's so much activity Like I prefer to go to the police office sometimes. But you got to make it work.
Speaker 2:Let you get right and I think this is such a for anyone you're. You're so right, like the majority of my friends who had their kids at home were like when will this end? And it's the same during school holidays, like when can they go back?
Speaker 1:And I think I feel so much for those kids. I'm like who's he loving all those kids all this time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's. It's like so many things at the moment, people are completely divided, polarized, but it's just being open enough to embrace it, and COVID forced people to have to embrace certain things and I think my take I don't have children. We may, we may not, I don't know but my take on school, and it's one of the reasons I've sort of given my podcast a bit of a subtext of all the things, anything that we didn't learn at school that helps us thrive in the world we live in now, which is very different, even, as you know, mainly because of COVID, I think a lot of people's eyes have been opened on a lot of things Again trust in government institutions or the way we've always done things is changing.
Speaker 2:We'll get onto Bitcoin later, but, you know, I think seeing through your lens of how kids are responding is so interesting, because they are the ones that are going to make the difference. You know, we can vote for who we want, we can adopt a new currency if we want, but these things clearly 25, 50 years of change, it's going to take a while. So you did a poll on Twitter and you found I don't know how many people voted, but when you started tweeting sharing of your experience of homeschooling, you found 75% of oh 79 voters said their kids also were more calm at home. Yeah, so, going back to your earlier point about mental health, there's obviously a correlation with and it's my bias, it's my opinion there's a correlation between the structure of our systems and you know, I flew through school academically but I'm still at 40 going. Who am I? What am I doing? You know a bit clearer now, but I was still at 30. I got through school really well and socially I was fine.
Speaker 2:My mum really didn't have much of a choice. She was on her own and working, and I think that's often the reason a lot of people would just go. It's not an option for us. We're both working Well. One, everyone should have the option to work remotely in a lot of desk-based jobs now, which I'm a big advocate for. And if you can't find a job, start your own thing, which you're doing both and monetising it, which, again, we'll get on to you later. So what would you give us? Your top three tips? Maybe for parents that if they had the opportunity to give it a crack and they could work from home. How on? Because my biggest thing, I get anxiety thinking about it and I don't even have children. How on earth do you make it work when you're working full-time, and now your husband's working full-time? That might be helpful or hindrance, I don't know. What are your top three tips for parents who might want to give this a go in and around two full-time careers?
Speaker 1:Well. So that's such a complicated question, I would say that well. So I think the biggest thing is it has to be the right job. Not all jobs are conducive. However, I will actually loop back for a minute because I have met people who make all sorts of different things work. I know I've connected with several single parents who are homeschooling their kids. I have, and that's actually one of the ways I convinced myself that I could, like both of us, work all the time in homeschooling my kids is I found these blogs of these women that were like homes, like it was two women and there's two parents homeschooling their kids.
Speaker 1:I was like well, if she could, the kids certainly do Amazing. We're like a partner.
Speaker 1:You know, I was like there's a whole other person and there's two of us, so and so they're just rock stars, and I was like, and you have time to write about it? I mean, they're just amazing human beings. So yeah, so there are people that make that work. There's several podcasts out there that they've interviewed people. I think the big thing that I have found is that it really comes down to the flexibility of your job. As my job is, I have a lot of control over my schedule. If you have a job where you don't have a lot of control of your schedule, it's going to be nearly impossible unless you're in the, unless one of the jobs needs to be flexible.
Speaker 2:Ideally, both of them are flexible.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But if it's two parents and you're working with two parents, if you're a single parent trained at homeschool, you've got to have that flexibility to say I'm working, now, I'm not working, then I have a lot of control over my schedule as a professor and I get to pick more or less when not 100%, but I can say I want my classes in the evenings, so I do in the evenings, my husband works in the mornings. I can say I don't want to schedule that time in the morning, I want to be in the afternoon and so I can work. I have that kind of flexibility and I don't think, if you have that, I think it's really really hard. I do know there was one woman who was seeming to make it work, where she was working nights as an emergency care person and so, but she was only doing it three days a week but because of the length of the shift it was full-time work. So there's some people that make alternative schedules. I also think so. One job flexibility. Two, I think breaking you don't have to. It's not school at home. There's no reason that you have to do it on 8 AM to 3 PM. It can be just the mornings, it can be weekends, it can be evenings. It has to work with your kids.
Speaker 1:I think I have found my children mornings of school time and that's best, because that's when they can get that really strong focus. And what I mean, that is the more academic subjects, Like the subjects that really require that focus, like writing and spelling and math. But they would do science any time of the day. They would do history, because we do history really fun any time of the day. They would do that kind of stuff any time and right now they do typing and Hindi lessons and recorder lessons and they do that basically every day. I didn't tell them they had to, but they're just like this is what we do every day. And I was like OK, this is what you do every day. And they picked it up and they run with it.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I think there's a time and place for everything, but for a while we were basically only doing science on the weekends. So you just have to break down the schedule and you also have to break, and that's, I guess, the number three is that you have to decide what it is that you want your kids. What does school, what does homeschooling look like? There is a whole unschooling community. I don't know if you've heard of unschoolers.
Speaker 2:I've read the term and I was going to get onto that to ask you the distinctions between the different things. So there was unschooling, homeschooling and distance learning.
Speaker 1:Those were the three that I saw.
Speaker 2:So what do you do? And then we'll look at the other two.
Speaker 1:I would say we are some sort of combination of unschooling and homeschooling, the way I think we're moving much more closely to homeschooling, unschooling, and there is even within homeschooling there's dichotomy. So there's radical unschoolers and they are to the place where they really don't tell their kids to do much of anything. It's really letting them kind of. It's really letting them just kind of find their own path, explore, and so there's a yeah, it's bold. And then there's more of just the regular unschooling.
Speaker 1:But I've seen kids who've come out of those programs and they're already doing they'll find what they're interested in and that's the thing that they do, and so they'll be really, really good at filmmaking when they're 16, because that's what they've had time to do Right. And then there is more of a broader unschooling net where there's a little bit more of a coaching model to it. So they're coaching their kids and they're a little bit more engaged and doing a little bit more bringing things together. And I would say that I was very inspired by the unschoolers initially in particular, and I came across and I think this will loop back to something you said earlier there is this wonderful podcast. It's called Living Joyfully, I think, and it's all about unschooling and she interviewed former unschoolers and I was like how did these kids turn out?
Speaker 1:Like I want to hear the adults that were unschooled and she talked to this one woman and she said that she always wanted to be a vet. She wanted to be a vet, that's all she wanted to be. And she was a kid and so her family moved to a big farm and she got to follow around a big animal vet and when she was 12, she was like I don't want to be a vet. And they were like, wow, what happened? And she's like I thought being a vet was taking care of your cute, fun animals. It turns out you're just basically taking care of sick animals all the time.
Speaker 2:And I just don't want to be with sick animals all the time.
Speaker 1:And. But I thought, because she got to try it, because she got to follow a vet, because she didn't have a typical school day, because she got to actually see what it was like, what you done once, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And I was like I said, in a normal world she would have gone to high school, gone for a veterinary degree and she would be 26 or 28 with all of this college debt and to get all these big degrees and be like I don't really want to be a vet. I thought it was this and it's this other thing entirely. And I think that that model and I think that that can happen in all of the models it doesn't have to be unschooling only, but because within that unschooling model, they just allowed her to explore whatever she was interested in. And the woman she was like 24, 25, and she had already. She had oh, maybe she's a little bit older, but anyway she had had. She was in her mid-20s at most and she had already. She had been running her own business for 10 years. Not only she had been running her own business, she was starting off another branch and she was going to have the other person do it. I was like she was 24, just because she had had all this time to be invested.
Speaker 2:So what was the business, sorry? To interrupt you. What was she done she?
Speaker 1:had moved into. It was like a salon. She was running a salon, so she did hair and makeup, right, ok, like a beauty salon, yeah, and yeah, like I said, probably other needs to put things in different countries. So, and then more of the homeschoolers are the homeschooling I always forget. More of the homeschooling model is a little bit more traditional school. So I would say we're a little bit closer to that model now. We have like, do science and we do history and we do our math and we do our language arts.
Speaker 1:However, I'm very influenced by the unschoolers, and the unschoolers are very it's very student-led, it's very, you know. So, like if my kids and actually this was true at the very beginning they're like I don't like this math. And it wasn't that they didn't like math, it was that they didn't like the way that math was being taught to them and the way that the method. And so I, you know, we got rid of all the curriculum and we just kind of worked through what are the like? Here's this way to do math Do you like this, do you like this? Do you like puzzles? Do you like the logic things you know how you do like manipulandums, like, and so I figured that out and then I was able to bring a curriculum to them and so I said let's try this. And they had, and I always say we've got this, you need to try it for a while.
Speaker 1:But if you don't like it, then we'll have a conversation and we'll and it's a back and forth. So it's not. It's not school, school, exactly at home, where it's like this is your teacher, these are your books, good luck. It's like OK, well, we have to learn math. We need to know some math. Math is important for almost anything you do, because you have to understand your finances and your inner bits and you have to understand how the world works. You have to understand how you know interest works and all of this. You have to know some math. So it's like OK, when we talk about that, you have to know some basics here, and you probably need to do some financial education with our kids too.
Speaker 1:So it's not going to just be like math, it's going to be like OK, well, let's talk about how you make money and how money is made and what happens when you get alone. Oh, I love you so much.
Speaker 2:You know, like all these things, you know it's like well, if you're going to go to college well, what degree are you going to get, and does you really need college for that degree?
Speaker 1:Anyway, the point being that you have to know some math, and but I don't care, you know exactly which math program you have. I want you to love math.
Speaker 2:I want you to come to it with joy, and that goes for all the subjects.
Speaker 1:And you know it's like with reading. We didn't. You know my five-year-old. She came home when she was at school. They're like this teacher, like she doesn't read enough, she doesn't like to read. Well, now I can't keep her in books. She's like growing through books so fast. But it was a lot of like what of? These things would you like to read?
Speaker 2:Or I would read to her.
Speaker 1:And then she would want to pick up the book. I was reading and keep reading and it was modeling, it was just anyway. So there's lots of things.
Speaker 2:On that, on reading. I think it was you. I mean, I've probably had all sorts of other people put in front of me.
Speaker 1:I've talked a lot about reading, because reading was awesome.
Speaker 2:I think it was you. Well, a couple of things you said about digital versus paper reading. That you've done an article on that, yes, but the bigger one that stuck out to me I'm sure it was you. You said basically don't stop reading stories to your children because however old they might be, because it's going to deny them or not deny them, but likely to decrease their desire to read themselves. Is that what you said? Something along those lines?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't remember if I said exactly that, but I do agree with that statement. The reading to your children, and even your older children, is amazing for lots of reasons. You are, it's a family bonding time. You're all sitting down reading a story together, and when you younger kids, you're basically like did you understand the story? Versus older kids, it's like what is the story trying to tell you? What is the author trying to? Can you draw connections between the story and another story? And those are conversations that a kid, a 14-year-old, can't. A 15-year-old, even an 18-year-old goodness, I mean, I think about my 18-year-old self being able to really understand what an author is trying to. I couldn't. I had a hard time doing that Like I was just like.
Speaker 2:I don't get it.
Speaker 1:I didn't even really like this book that much. Oh, boys, versus, you have someone that's right, right, versus, taking the time to like kind of draw these connections and pull things together, and you know kids love to do that, and then you can, and the more books that they're exposed to. You know, my oldest is starting to do that. She's like I said, you know, do you read this book? She's like, oh yeah, you know, that was, it was a lot like the story of this, and she was and it's a different culture. And she's like they told it slightly this way. It ended different than this one and I said, well, why do you think it ended different?
Speaker 1:And so those are the kinds of things but I also think that you know, I read to my kids but I also have audio books read to my kids, but I'm in the room with that Like we listen, and so if you get some of these just amazing orators reading these books, they're learning through that, like I watched how my kids, when they see an exclamation point, they exclaim it and they make voices and they just so, they just, and that's so important you get, oh, like your job right. You know you're coaching and you're doing this interfacing, like to be able to have a really emotive voice, and you know, when you're coaching you gotta be the champion. Sometimes You're dealing with humans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And so they're learning that through a lot of the reading of these books and I'm a huge believer in just the great literature. Though I would say I hated all the literature when I was. I hated, I hated history which I have fallen in love with since teaching my kids, I hated reading all those really long books which I have also fallen in love with reading with my kids. So there's, all this stuff that school taught me to hate Like I hated it. I hated school, I hated all of it.
Speaker 1:Everyone's like. You were in school all the long time for someone who hated it, but I think that was just because, like what you said, I didn't know what else was supposed to do. I just kept following the path, and I don't want that to happen.
Speaker 2:I want them to yeah, and that's so interesting because you are the epitome of an academic right and there's this ongoing conversation at the moment, but particularly with people. I actually led a panel at a Bitcoin conference recently and we called it Education versus Academia, because we're just in this world now where it's the information age. Like you are an academic teaching me or teaching us, and you have this kudos because you are a professor. But your kids will likely be learning from one another because they've consumed all this information and they can now do so on crack, because they can put their audio books on 2X to listen to or I'm not quite at 2X, but I'm at 1.5, depending on the reader. But you know we've got it depends on the reader it does, which is so important.
Speaker 2:Again, it's the human element, and now we have machine learning and AI so they can pull up information and there's pros and cons to that too. But so how do you feel about if, say, all academic institutions were gonna die? As someone who is an academic, what are your thoughts on that? Because obviously there's some jobs that I would like to think my heart surgeon is still going to go and get the academia for that but how do you feel about that?
Speaker 1:I think that academia is completely bloated and it's just a huge. My husband, or my dad, always likes to talk about how when companies get too big, they become these kind of they can't really move very quick and they can't really make good decisions. In startups, they can just shoot over there, over here. They're just really fast and nimble and that's why they can drive really big changes. And I think that academia has just got and I mean the university system in general. When I think of academia, sometimes I think more of the research elements, and we can talk about that too.
Speaker 1:But in terms of the university system as a whole. I just think it's big and it's bloated and it's saying and it's trying to bring everybody in, it's trying to do too many things not very well. And I think that, like you said, I think there's gonna be some careers. You're gonna need a higher education degree. And I'll say it this for my kids I'm a university professor and I don't know if my kids will go to college. It'll depend on what they want to do. If they wanna be a doctor, you gotta go to college for that.
Speaker 1:You wanna be a lawyer okay, you probably have to go to college for that you wanna be a writer?
Speaker 1:I don't understand the point. You wanna be a? You wanna start, you wanna be in communications? I don't see the point. You wanna be, I mean, like there's some things that you have to have these degrees for, but a lot of these things you just don't. You wanna start your own company. I don't see the point.
Speaker 1:Like there's so many vastly better ways and cheaper ways to learn. You know. I mean, like the university I go to, which is a large or I'm a part of, is a large public one of the cheaper universities. It's still gonna take $100,000 to get through four years of that degree. You know, and I told people I was like you know, like, even if you go and you sign up for some guy on the internet who's gonna teach you something, and it costs you $5,000. Like, and even if it's it's terrible, you're still doing better. Like you're still like. You know, then find another person that's the right person, find another woman that's a better fit for you. Like it's just you can. There's just there's so much content out there and so many ways to learn things and some of the best ways to learn things are just to shadow and to, you know, intern and, just you know, do things for free for people, and you know, there's just, there's just so many other ways to learn and I think that are better ways to learn, to be honest, and so I actually think it would be good for the university system to lean down a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's not, that's not their goals and nor should it be like. You know, if they're there, they they're a business. They pretend like they're nonprofits. They're not. They're making money. They, you know their goal is to bring as many students and keep as many students in and have them persist all the way through. That's their business model and that's fine. But I think it would be good for them to have to work harder for the students and to and it not necessarily be everybody. So, wow, that's my that.
Speaker 2:That segment will definitely be going on social media Many times because it's just. It's just an advert. It's for everything I do, you know like get online, learn a skill, Apply that skill to the things that you're interested in. You know I'm a talker. That's why I'm doing a podcast. Now Do I know what I'm doing? No, but I learned it through pretty much free resources. But there's a lot within that. You know, again, I haven't studied interview technique yet. So on my list there's all sorts of things that you're going to find your way and, like you say, Exactly right and I'm definitely gonna link to this article because it's given me so many things.
Speaker 2:I want to ask you, but we'll be here for hours. I could talk to you about this stuff all day, but you've where you've just left off with the institutions. Point three in this article was high control environment. So so many rabbit holes we could go down with this one. So you, you were talking about it from a perspective of the impacts of kids who perhaps don't thrive in a traditional school environment because of it being high control, and you've touched on a few things there that make a lot of sense, and you've also now just touched on it with the academic institutions. But going back to kids in school and selfishly, from the ADHD perspective and the high-prime environment, the ADHD perspective and the hyperactivity perspective and the impact on kids, tell us a bit more about that. Like what did you see, I guess, in your own kids and the connection, the attachment, style of parenting, like I'm selfishly asking you this to see how we can do best With what we're dealing with when we, when we have him.
Speaker 1:So what I think what happened was it is it was noticeable that when my kids came home from school, that An actor, not right away, but within a month or two that they were just peaceful, they were just a calmer, and it's hard to and I remember I remember we went to the beach with my parents and I guess it was Must have been a year after COVID, so it must be that 2021 era and, and I just remember, like we were just still, we're still doing our like my kids would get out there like Work notebooks and we were still trying to figure out the right curriculum, so it was like one worksheet, these stuff, but they would just sit there and peacefully do them and my mom was like we've got to get them busy, got like, take them out the door. I got a move and I was like there's that generational thing they're okay.
Speaker 1:Well, no, it's because they're used to their other grandkids and my okay, my Right, so, and then we're around other you know the school kids, and there's just a different energy to them. It's like I've gotten annual and if you talk to other homeschool parents will say the same thing like you can walk, I can walk up to a playground, and I remember so. When you go to the playgrounds in your homeschool, or 10 am On Tuesday, you there's, either homeschool kids are there or there's nobody there. And I remember I walked up to the playgrounds Last year and there were all these kids on the playground and I'm like what's? A lot of kids on the playground. I'm gonna say that closer. I was like these are my homeschool kids, like there's just a totally different, just like a wild, just like got it, I just have these 15 minutes to get all this crazy energy out. And I'm sure enough it was like the local school. I just brought them over after a field trip and they were just, they were just running around and stuff and a burning, I think there's.
Speaker 1:My kids get to play, not whenever they want, but they get as much play as they need, you know, and even their work is play to them. Like they they don't. Spelling lessons require a lot of focus, you know, and I super love that, but I'm not gonna say that. But but the science it's fun, the history is fun, and even within their math lessons it's a lot of riddles and games and these sorts of things. In with their language arts, they love reading, they love stories, they're getting to color things, they're getting to we do all these other kinds of activities and stuff, and so it's not, it's play for them. Their learning is playful and so they don't feel the need to have all this extra play, but they need, and so I think that just from a psychological standpoint. You know, kids have to go into school and they have to sit in their tiny little chair before.
Speaker 1:I think it's age-appropriate to do that and we tell adults I think it might have been you that was saying we tell adults that they have to get up every ten minutes and go walk around, but like kids have to sit still in this one little spot and it's like you can't get out until lunch and lunch is 15 minutes and you got to eat that lunch as quickly as possible and there's, like this one, even recess and that's it Right. It's like it's not. It's really hard so psychologically. I think that's really hard on growing bodies.
Speaker 1:And then you know, as a neurophysiologist, we can talk about all of the other influences that I think are enhancing and and the ADHD, which is also related to the chemicals and the toxins that people are exposed to, the children are exposed to, and in our food and our water and all of the other places, as well as screens, and screens too young, completely changes the way the brain develops and and that's that's, that's that's that's known.
Speaker 1:Now, like people talked, about it for a while, but it's. I mean it. Just your brain just develops differently and we know that it has long-term effects on your ability to focus. And if you haven't, you know it obviously is. Everyone needs screens, like we're using a screen. Kids, you use green poison cots, but there's a difference between a four-year-old using a screen and a 10-year-old using a screen and 15 year old using a screen and a 30 year old using a screen. They always it always has addictive power, but it's also your capacity to self-regulate. A four-year-old doesn't have, has a very low capacity for self-regulation. They and they just you know you try to take a screen away from a four-year-old tears. It's misery. You know my nine-year-old. You know we have long conversations about it's like. You know this is the amount of time you get and she gets it.
Speaker 1:She also, I'm also able to be like how does it feel if you've been on the screen too long? Yeah, I don't, I just don't know. I feel and like, right, you just kind of feeling, like you're feeling, just you feel whatever, and so we can have conversations about that. So you know, I think, I don't think you know you're dealing with these. I think it's not just the school, but it's it's all of these factors, right?
Speaker 1:The lack of recess, the lack of and we can talk about attachment as well. I mean, I think that my children that was sort of mission had Far less attachment when we that is one of the biggest changes, that is, they are so attached to us and we're really attached to them too. Works both ways and I think more. You know I always love my kids, but I think the attachment that we have and the closeness that we have is far different than it was. And I think that kids you know they're at home, parents have kids for the worst hours. They have them at the very end in the morning when they just get up and they're kind of cranky, and they have them for the last two hours of the day, which I mean still I, the last hour of the day is still pretty tough around here.
Speaker 2:I'm still.
Speaker 1:But you know, um, but I have all these other wonderful, beautiful hours with them. So it's okay to have those cranky hours, it's not? Yeah, and because we have all those other beautiful, wonderful hours with them, when they go and talk to them they feel it it's different.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I do think that that matters, that you know parents don't have, don't get to have this time. And the other thing is that parents' worst time If you're working, you're out working. You're tired, exhausted. You dealt with all the stuff at work. Sometimes your brain's still at work. You're trying to be present with your kid. It's super hard to do that and I just think kids have got it rough. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I noticed you called it the zoomies those hours.
Speaker 1:In the evening. My mum calls it the witching hour, yeah, the witching hour, and everyone's tired and hungry, and hungry.
Speaker 2:So on that then you mentioned detachment. How do you find their levels of I mean, maybe they were fine before in terms of intentionally being away from you their independence, their self-sufficiency? How are all those kind of skills, and even social skills, like possibly what some people might assume are the downsides of homeschooling?
Speaker 1:Socialization, yeah, yeah. So I would say that there's been a progress with that. Let me ask you to address the socialization separate. But in terms of the attachment, I will say, and their independence associated with that, I feel like they went through a period where they it was almost like a reattachment phase, so they just were like you really don't want to be away from you. Now I just got me back. It was almost like this insecurity and I think that those things that like it wasn't insecure attachment. I didn't know that and they didn't. They didn't present, like from a clinical perspective, this insecure attachment. They weren't having those levels of things. But you could tell after, because they were trying to reattach that, that we went through that phase. But now, because we went through that, they're just they're developing a whole other level of confidence.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, like we'll say, like my little one decided she didn't want to do gymnastics anymore. So, well, got to go up to the instructor, you got to go up to tell the instructor yourself that you're not going to do it, and she was, like, seemed a little nervous, and then she went, she did it, you know, and and there you know, they go to camp and they're like I want to go the whole day camp, okay, I'll go the whole day. Awesome, they're making those choices right. Great, that's amazing. As opposed to and I think it's different, you know, like a lot of parents who have their kids in school and they're working, it's like, well, you're going to camp, pick which camp? It's a different conversation versus my children, it's like we don't have to go to camp, I'm just here anyway. If you want to go to camp, yeah, I want to go to camp. So they're making the choices to be away from us, which is inappropriate.
Speaker 1:It's independent and you know, and they're young to be making those choices, right. Yeah, and then in terms of socialization, I always ask what kind of socialization? Define socialization? And what, what, how? How are your children being socialized at school? And a lot of times people say, oh well, they're making friends. And I said, are they? No, they're being forced to hang out with people they don't like Well, it's not just that.
Speaker 1:I mean in the in the elementary schools, the kids, if they're friends, they talk to each other, so they will literally find out the friend groups and separate them into different classrooms, so they're not even the same classrooms with their friends. On purpose they make it that way because otherwise they talk.
Speaker 2:God forbid, and I remember being because I'm chatty, because you're chatty, yeah, you need to go sit at the back and not allowed to sit with your friend. I'm like what.
Speaker 1:Yes, I, I was always. My mom said that once she came to like the, you know the parent teacher conferences, and they sat down and they're like my mom says, how's it going.
Speaker 1:And the teacher just went like this, she just talks all the time. I was bored, I was bored, I was bored, I was bored, I thought I was like I was just totally bored all the time. And I don't know what it was like for other kids, but I was just bored all the time. And that's one of the things I love about homeschooling is that you know if they've got something which is fun, and if they don't got it, we get to spend longer on it. You know both ways. It goes both ways. We can both be fast, or, if they like it, you'll stay on it.
Speaker 2:You know like I can stay on it forever.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'm thinking of my partners, yeah my partner's little boy.
Speaker 2:He's absolutely obsessed with maps and when he's with us, like, he knows the roads, his memory for roads and sense of direction. Like I am I am academic and I always was quite bright I cannot find my way home without Google Maps, even if it's 10 minutes away. Like it's just not a strength for me. So I I'm always trying to. When he does it, I'm trying to reinforce how clever he is, because he does struggle in other things and it's just the visual spatial awareness is huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's interesting just listening to everything you're saying Like it's. Why do we treat children like our generation especially? Personal development and self-help is also normal now. Going to therapy Very normal now.
Speaker 2:So why is it that, when we're learning all these things about as an adult, it's important to emotionally regulate? Because we live in this stressful, overwhelming world, which is becoming more and more stressful and overwhelming as time goes on, with cost of living rising, which is the big one that ties into money and Bitcoin for me. Well then, why are we continuing to exercise the same control over children? And just listening to you, it's this whole polarization thing. Again, it's okay, you can give them control or you can give them complete freedom, but everyone's going to have something on that spectrum, right? So what you, what I'm getting from you which is so great and takes a lot of effort, I'm sure, but it works is just where are their boundaries? They're going to that whole attachment thing.
Speaker 2:You said the insecurity to start with, but it's like now I'm assuming what you're saying is they've kind of found their own comfort zone with what they. They know that you're going to give them the freedom to explore, but they also know there's a boundary on. You will need to do certain things. This is how the world works but with a willingness to just be comfortable in themselves, like if they're at camp, they're comfortable enough to say, well, we don't have to be here, but we want to be here. You know, I just there is no way I would have said that when I was a kid at camp I enjoyed it. I know I don't I had a happy childhood. It was just pretty much just me and my mom for the most part when I was little. But yeah, just that healthy kind of trust that they will figure it out. But I think getting to that point is probably quite challenging, that people, just the adults, are the ones that can't handle it.
Speaker 1:Well, I love to my, my daughter, my oldest came home and she was talking to her.
Speaker 1:So it was getting close to when the US goes back to school and they asked her you know, when do you go back to school? And she's like are we homeschooled? So we do school all the time? We just didn't exactly right, because we only do it four days a week and then we we just took a month off to go to India, so but but they she didn't like come home and they were like oh well, don't you get any breaks. She's like we get you know whenever. You know, just take breaks whenever we need it. Or she was explaining you know, like, if we don't feel like it or feel sick or whatever, you just don't have to do it those days. And it was just such a and I just love that she just has this like she didn't feel any. I was like this is cool, this is what we do and it's fine, you know, like there's no, she's not worried about the judgment around it she's not worrying about the judgment of it.
Speaker 1:I think the judgment has changed. I mean, I, I feel we all you know, homeschoolers who are homeschooling today owe a huge debt of gratitude to the people that did it. You know, back in the 70s when it was illegal, you know, and actually I learned that a lot of that socialization thing, the stigma, came from a period of time when homeschool families, if they took their kids out during regular hours, their kids might be arrested. You know they could get their kids taken away from them because they weren't supposed to be out, right. So a lot of those kids were did have poor socialization because they weren't allowed out, because their parents were homeschooling them. But that's just. It's not the world now. I mean, there's co-ops and everything. I actually actually I remember like a year into homeschooling I was like I think my kids are getting too much socialization, like I don't think the kids at school are getting enough, like I think we need to pull back, we're just for socializing too much.
Speaker 2:Well, and the time is limited. I don't mean it's really that way, but like, yeah, the time for something. I mean as a grown-up, like if you're working full time, whatever you might be doing, even if you love what you do, you're it's the majority of your time, and it's the same for kids at school, right, there's more time spent in those two things, in those two, I guess, institutions or institutions of thought, because that is how we do things and it's not working. So I was just about to make the comment. Actually, your Twitter handle is or I discovered you, as is it hippie mom, hippie mom.
Speaker 1:Hippie mom yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's just so funny because you don't like being totally judgy, like you do not strike me as a hippie, and I think just nowadays, especially since COVID, anyone who was slightly alternative is now gaining a lot more respect than they previously had. Whether it's you know, it used to be a conspiracy theorist. Now it's like oh, you were actually right in a lot of things.
Speaker 1:You were right about a few things. We used to say we were evidence-based hippies because we use all the science, but it's like but it's, but it's the stuff that, like, everyone thinks is crazy stuff because it's the leading edge. I was like we filter our water and we go to our kids and we buy organic mattresses and we do all the organic stuff you know, and we do intermittent fasting, we do all these different things, you know, and there's lots of evidence for all of these things, but everyone's just kind of like that's. You know, I did the natural, you know, all natural labors and we, you know, had to these are birth centers and so we did all these things, which to me is just like, well, that's just, that's just that's good, you know, that's just good practices, but but to everyone else it just feels so we just sew out there, you know, and I think you know we were around all these mainstream academics and we just seem out there. But I will say that there there's a huge shift in the way even people are thinking about homeschooling, like I think it used to just be like well, that's crazy. And like.
Speaker 1:I ran into a colleague, two colleagues. I'll tell you two stories really quickly. One, one of my older colleagues and all of his kids are. He has one, he has five kids and one of them is about to graduate high school and he, I was coming out, I was going into class really late. He's like, oh, you're teaching off late.
Speaker 2:I said well, you know, I'm homeschooling my kids in the mornings and he he took this big sigh.
Speaker 1:He looked at me and he said I wish we had homeschooled our kids. And it was just like you know.
Speaker 1:So this, like this moment of just like you know, but just even the recognition that that's something to do. And then I have another colleague I just had lunch with you know, a couple weeks ago, and and he was like, well, how's the homeschooling going? He was like that's awesome. And he was just I was just telling him stuff. And he was just like, well, we tried this and it didn't really work. And I was like, well, he was talking about his kids.
Speaker 1:We couldn't get her to do the homework. And I was like, well, how old is she? He's like five. And I was like I wasn't supposed to be doing homework, like that's all you're supposed to do in your five. And it was just like this, oh, and I was like that's, it's not school at home, and you get the opportunity to teach them the way of five year olds to be learning, which is aesthetic and they can learn oh, they can just learn magical things and it's just really fun, fun, fun ways when they're five. So, anyway, but so the point just being is that they're contemplating it. They don't 100% understand how to do it, but it's a completely different ballgame than it was.
Speaker 1:And I also think, and even the people who aren't contemplating understand that it's hard and recognize that it's a value. So I had someone else the other day that just said oh, during COVID, I was just I can't believe you do that. And you know, just like in a like, but in a, not in a way, that's like dismissive of like, oh, that's crazy, it's just like that's really hard. It's a completely different. That's a completely different. And five.
Speaker 2:I think it's just it'd be really grateful for it's symptomatic of and you will know this, you, you studied it, you way more qualified to talk about it than me. But some of my coaching is simply mindset. Like I'm studying NLP. You know there's I'm sure there's elements of the science from what you do in that's been developed into that modality. But you know it's just mindset. Just people are, we are thinkers and we we develop our mindset as we get older with certain ways, and being open minded just seems to be an epidemic. People are afraid because if you think differently, you can get yelled at, whether it's online or offline. And so I think a lot of people I hope a lot of people find real value in this conversation because it's just, it's literally just. You have to embrace a different way of thinking, parenting is hard, but it's the best thing anyone says they ever do.
Speaker 2:So it's like, well, okay take the rest of this move but so we just on a practical level, and then I'll move on, switch gears a bit to you. Do you have? Do you have, do you sign up to a curriculum, or you sign up to some kind of body that enables you to do this? Because I have no idea how it works, I you know. Do you have guidance, or do you have to literally design a curriculum for your children and experiment?
Speaker 1:It depends on. It depends on. So one thing I can I say one thing about what you just said. First, if you don't mind, yes, you said something about how people don't want to be open minded and they don't want to move forward Like they want. They can't think about the box. It's a challenge You're going to get yelled at online, but that's, school teaches you that, like that's literally one of the lessons of school and and actually I mean you should have someone on who actually knows the entire. I've learned about it, but I won't do it near the justice, but that was one of.
Speaker 1:You know we brought over. Our school system is from the Prussian model, like pre Nazi Germany pressure, like they brought over the system, which was about, you know, putting everybody in the same age groups and teaching, obedience teaching. You know they wanted factory workers, they wanted people that didn't ask questions. They didn't want, they weren't trying to create these, you know, complex. I wonder what it is. Our system, our education system, is not designed to do that. Now there are that being said, there are charter schools and private schools that certainly do that, and I know that they're, and I will never, I will not. I'm not one of the people that's going to bash teachers, because I think most teachers are trying. They're very, very hard, oh, absolutely, and they're working within a flawed system.
Speaker 1:And a lot of them are really trying their very best and their breaking rules to get to do things that are good for kids, but anyway, so I think you know school teaches a lot, of, a lot of that, and I think that that's part of why people have a hard time. Thinking outside the box is because you're not, you're not asked to and you get in trouble for doing that.
Speaker 2:And that's that's. That was a driver for me off of off the back of COVID and the various rabbit holes I went down. It's like it is a new world now. A lot of people were like during COVID, things are going to go back to normal at some point, and a lot of the people in my circle were all on the same page with no, no, there's going to be the world before COVID and the world after COVID, and I think people are still just trying to fit their lives into the pre COVID way of doing. And there's it's. It's brought as much opportunity as it did, as it brought crisis, and that's kind of what I'm trying to focus on is just talking to people like you and people that have proven in this new world that we are in, there's just so much opportunity to do things differently, but it is going to require you to be willing to just be a little bit open and source your information, like you said, from evidence, from people that are doing it and have the results to show for it.
Speaker 1:So everyone is going to be able to understand that all data is flawed. All data is flawed in some way, so you have to use your brain and think through things.
Speaker 2:No, we're not going to do it, we're not going to go.
Speaker 1:You asked me a question that I ignored, and I don't remember what it was.
Speaker 2:Um, just parenting in general, like it's a challenge, but it's like a lot of things. It's it's the best thing that people do, but also the hardest thing, and you know it's. There's ways of navigating it your way and you've just got to pick, pick where you want to be. I think it was on the spectrum of polarization you know you can take that the trip find your place.
Speaker 2:A curriculum, designing a curriculum yeah, yes, that's what it was. It was. Do you sign up for something and are you given guidance and frameworks, or are you winging it?
Speaker 1:So yeah, so 100% decides. It depends on your country, it depends on your and then what's in that country? I actually don't know anything about Australia, sorry, but within the United States it depends on your state. So in in the states so the state that I am in is one of the very low regulation you basically say, hey, I'm homeschooling, and they go cool, have fun with that, and they say these are the things that you're supposed to do, but nobody checks that you're doing any of those things, whereas some of the high regulation states you might have to take standardized testing, you might have to turn in your portfolios, you might have to turn in worksheets, and so there's a lot more. So it's very varied Because I have so much freedom.
Speaker 1:There's pros and cons to that. Yeah, I think one of the big pros was that we just really got to experiment a lot at the beginning with what was good for our kids and we definitely did a lot of de schooling, which is like getting school off of you, like getting out of that school mindset, and school has to be a certain way and homework has to be. Five year olds need homework. You have to get rid of all those thoughts.
Speaker 2:But what we?
Speaker 1:do is I make use of. I kind of pick the best curriculum that matches my kids the best and we play around with that. And so I have a math and their math and language arts have to be with the same group, which is the good and the beautiful, and that won't necessarily fit everybody, but that's the one that we have chosen because it's got it. Does this spiral approach where they hit something and then they hit it again, and they hit it again and they just kind of slowly build complexity. And what's great about that, as opposed to like learning all the arithmetic and then we're going to do clocks and then we're going to do multiplication but then you forgot arithmetic or you forgot clocks versus. This is the spiral approach and so you don't have to do testing as much as integrating and building and
Speaker 1:so I really like that and it's got a lot. They do lots of games, like my little one. It's like she's got this little boat and she's trying to skip counts. She says this little boat and she's skip counting between these cute little clouds is a complete. It's just a. It's adorable and lovely and lots of cutting and doing these kinds of things. So we so that just was a really good fit for for those things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm really fussy about science. I was mostly just doing our own science, but I recently got some science that's totally experiment based, so it's super hands on and has all the stuff on history. I'm using a lot of the well trained mind, which also, if anyone, if anyone's listening and really wants to get into homeschooling, the well trained mind is just an exceptional book and I use it as a base for the way I think about lots of what we do. I think the way they do history and literature is exceptional. I use a lot of Memorial press because I think they're exceptional in terms of literature. So you know, the answer is I I pick and choose based on one what fits my kids, what's going to be good, like if I try something out and they get bored or they get frustrated or whatever. Okay, that doesn't mean we're throwing out literature, it just means that's not the right curriculum for us. Yeah, that's too stuffy or that's too whatever.
Speaker 1:So one fitting my kids and then two, you know, picking the best of everything that's out there, you know? You know, is it as you grow up? I mean, I think that's one of the things that's really great, is that some, I feel like all the curriculums are something that's really good about them. Do you know what I mean? That's a really good fit for them and so we can just pick and choose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really good, and I think, listening to you, my, not, I wouldn't say anxiety is a strong word, but I'm thinking so. How many hours a day are you actually schooling them, and how many hours a day are you having to find, to do that research, to find the curriculum, and then you have to do your job. What does it like a day look like for you?
Speaker 1:A typical day look like If it was typical, yes, well, yeah, typical. So get up, I cook. So that's the other thing. And we cook all of our food from scratch and we have a garden, so that's all good stuff.
Speaker 1:So I cook breakfast and lunch in the morning every day at the same time and then we start school around nine. We'll do math and language arts in the mornings and if the kind of the deal is that they get done quickly enough, then we get to do science before lunch and they always, they always get it, but they're like we want to do before lunch, okay so we get done quickly.
Speaker 2:Food coma kicks in after lunch.
Speaker 1:I can't wait until after. Well, it's because I love it so much Like I don't want to do it for lunch. I want to do it before lunch.
Speaker 2:Hey, you can do a boiling experiment where you cook lunch.
Speaker 1:Let me talk about the chemical properties of this noodle. Anyways, so they so. Then we'll do most of the time we do science before lunch and then we'll do lunch, and then the afternoon it'll be, it'll be history or we do. We'll do like we listen mostly, mostly listen to other books. I read to them at night, but mostly we'll listen and we'll do coloring while we're listening or something like that, or handwriting while we're listening. And then they are responsible. I think I mentioned earlier. They're responsible for their Hindi lessons. They're typing lessons in their recorded lessons and they choose to do those. They love doing those. So they they just pick that and they sometimes they'll play first and then they'll do them. Sometimes they'll. I think today we had friends over so they only got through one of them. So they were like I've got to get back. I got a week, we're going to get back from dance and do it, and I was like it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2:It's okay, so they're so sufficient. I just got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're so sufficient on those they're like, but I can't.
Speaker 2:I got my streak is going and I can't, and they're so self aware. That's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's awesome. I, I, the agency that homeschooling has given my kids is just, it's just, it's not, it's not believable, it's just, it's not believable, really. I mean, they, they just do things that you just like. All the things that they say that kids won't do, my kids just do and they love doing it. They love reading, like they just, they love it Just love it.
Speaker 1:And science and history, all of these things, and then my typical work. I usually work somewhere around from two two onwards, but I do work out somewhere in that window of two onwards. I don't tend to do dinner with my kids yeah, and they're with my my husband during that time period but I do. I do come out and read them, read them stories in the evening and I am working on probably a shifting, yeah, job, things, yeah, but that's what I was, that's what. That's kind of what it looks like.
Speaker 2:That's what I was going to ask you next, because just reading your stuff, listening to you speak, I I'm sure I could give you a number of ideas for monetizing your skill set online and you already are. Like everyone needs to go and check out your sub stack. So on that quickly. So much useful information. But on the on the get paid side of things like when you did you have a Twitter following or did you just start tweeting about your passion for homeschooling Because you've got about 5,000 followers Some people might not think that's much, but if you've also got you've got a paid newsletter five bucks a month, like a coffee a month such valuable information for anyone who's considering this. Like what did that start? Just from COVID and embracing what you were doing and sharing it, was that purely that?
Speaker 1:You know I got on Twitter, really just a way to find people that were having similar experience than I was. And I didn't want to do it under my name initially, I just wanted to just be like I just want to find other people that are, because we, like I said, we were having such a different experience from everyone else in terms of my kids. That wasn't all you know. I want to talk about all the other ways that we were having a different experience from everybody else, but I think you can imagine and and so it was really just a way to connect with people. And then I just found that I it really kind of became a journal. I was just kind of journaling cool things that were happening with my kids at home and then, and then I wrote this tweet about why, how, how, as a university professor but I don't trust the system to educate my kids, and it just went bonkers.
Speaker 1:And then I was like oh, so people are interested in this. It's like okay, there it is. It got like it got like a million people's odd or something crazy. And then it was like all right, so I and so then I just kind of started moving down that line. And then I, you know and I I always feel like you know I'm kind of a new homeschooler, like we've been doing it for three years. Right, there's so many other people that have been doing it so much longer and have so much better capacity to talk about that. But what I do know is science and I think I'm an educator and I think I like reading the science and I also like teaching people how to read science. I think people just like reading the abstract and being like this is what it says, let's look at the data and let's go through it, and I like that for people. So I always try to put in my sub stack like here's this article, this is what they say here's some caveats.
Speaker 1:Here's some things I think about. Okay, it's my title. Let's put this in the framework of something else and, like you know, just kind of this idea of like, just because they concluded, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the conclusion, right, yeah, they can. All they can do is say this is what our, this is the data that we got. And and how you interpret that data is a little different, and that's, I think, what Robert.
Speaker 2:F Kennedy. Robert F Kennedy Jr is very much on using in his campaign is. There's experts on both sides all the time. Yes, we've seen a lot, of, a lot of that to a different location that's okay. Yeah, no, I'm looking to run up soon anyway.
Speaker 1:So you do what you need to do. I'll keep talking to you.
Speaker 2:Are you all right to keep talking Whilst you're moving? Yes, you can keep chatting.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, go to different location, because I'm showing everybody it's possible.
Speaker 2:So, with your Z stars, your one tweet, I'll go and find that tweet that went bonkers, as you put it, because that's a common, a common discovery, for I think people that I coach and talk to about you know, starting something of your own is just, it's as simple as that. It's share experiences. Your view is going to be very different. Your perspective, your conclusions are going to be very different to anyone else, and you will find your people online because they will just be gravity, they will gravitate towards you, its community, it's, and it's I said on an episode that I recorded recently it's, it's meaningful work, because we all want validation, which is the downside, or possibly the extrinsic, not so healthy dopamine that we seek from social media, but it is a need and to belong and and you get that when you share your opinions authentically and and things that you're passionate about, and I hope that your kids are seeing that and seeing that they can.
Speaker 2:You know you may not be making a full time income, I don't know, I don't need to know, but the fact is you, you have taken that and, very simply, there are platforms out there, like sub stack, that enable you to share away and you can offer extra value to those who see the value in it enough to pay for it. It's as simple as that. So well done, congratulations, and I will definitely be seeking your consultation if and when I have children, and if and when I get as far as I've always had a bit of a dream to establish some kind of educational institution of sorts, and that that was a huge discovery for me that I didn't know, I was passionate about, until I went to Bali and I discovered the green school. Do you know much about the green school in Bali?
Speaker 1:I haven't heard about the green school, but that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just and you said it in one of your articles just, school can look so different if we're willing to just open our minds and and create that, which is something I'm all about. So let's wrap up what and this is probably you think about these kind of questions homeschooling your children but what would you tell your younger self about being you and getting paid, so that those two things usually cover things like what advice would you give your younger self about knowing yourself and what advice would you give your younger self about understanding money?
Speaker 1:Oh, so complicated.
Speaker 2:What you tell your children. Yeah, I'm gonna say what I would tell myself.
Speaker 1:Well, there's the money thing. I mean there's lots of things we would like to. I wish we were an index fund sooner. I wish that we had done Bitcoin a lot sooner. I wish you lots of things and my kids are certainly gonna understand about diversification and the and that and all of those kinds of things a lot better for sure than we did and compound interest in how that really works and how you need to be doing things. You need to be saving a lot of money. When you're young, live like you don't have money when, even when you get it for a little while so you can get that stored away. So I you know those are kind of from the financial perspective, money perspective in terms of knowing myself.
Speaker 1:I think that I wish that I had trusted my gut more. You know everyone and not so much what everyone else says. So I'm certainly in that place now and it was a long journey to get here. You know, for example, you know they'll say things. There's a lot of stuff like oh well, you know, daycare is really good for kids and the kids that are in these situations actually do better. And you know it's okay. You know it's normal to feel really sad. It's normal for them to cry when they leave you and it's like. You know, I didn't want to do any of that stuff and I hated doing it and I was just told that it was okay and it was fine and it wasn't okay.
Speaker 1:And I wish that I had listened to myself and I'm not saying and I you know, and I'm not, I'm not going to be like. Everyone has to listen to themselves and figure out what's right for them and their family and I'm not judgmental of other people making those decisions. It was not the right choice for me and not the right choice for my children. That's just me, my kids, and I wish that. So I would have said listen more to to yourself and less to what others are telling you.
Speaker 2:So maybe there's some I think that is a version of the answer everyone has given that I've spoken to so far. It's a version of better on yourself, back yourself, trust yourself, don't listen to other people, and it's. It's everything I'm trying to reiterate time and time again with with what I do and my brand. We haven't really talked about Bitcoin. What was? We'll try and keep it relatively short, but I know you're invested in it and you've told me your husband manages it. It's not your primary investment, but what's the why behind that? Do you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, I think our big thing is is diversification, right? We just don't really know what's going to work, I mean different of your asset class right.
Speaker 1:So so you want to have, you know, index funds. You want to have gold and silver we've got some of that stuff too. You want to have Bitcoin. You want to have because you just don't really know what the future is going to hold, and so you want to have some diversification. You know, I mean, I think we also really love the idea of you know the, the principle that is Bitcoin, right, is this independent? You know, outside of, outside of the system, love that, and I would love to be successful.
Speaker 1:I know there's there's lots of people trying to take it and put it within the system and we're like no, no, no, let's not do that. But so I think, so I think about that suits us. I mean, I think that we have more and more outside of the mainstream, as you say, and and so Bitcoin lives there and that suits us, right, yeah, it's not our, it's not our only thing. You know we're big, we follow, we follow a lot of the data. My husband's a data analytics guy and so he follows a lot of the data and has looked at a lot of. What did the data say about what? What things are going to play out in?
Speaker 1:the traditional markets, and so we you know we do that versus you know some of these things are new. We don't know what's going to play out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know for sure. That's really interesting. I think you understand. You certainly understand the principle and the value system of it more than most. I guess all I would say is, if you have time, which most people don't, I need to get better at tweeting succinctly to help you so that you don't have to find the time. But yeah, you've articulated the why for sure, just being the independent, and it's not so much it is outside of the system, but it's.
Speaker 2:It's a new system, like it's an entirely new ecosystem, and I guess a lot of people will say they've got it as an investment and it's just so much bigger than that because it's it's it's hard money, it's a new version of money and it's as you know, it's not faultless, it's not perfect, but it's the only thing we've got that's close to perfect and it's just evolving all the time.
Speaker 2:So I guess if, if you're looking at it and you and your husband are looking at it from an investment perspective in the same way, you would index funds try and just adopt which I know you're more than more than capable of an approach that it's actually something entirely different, in the same way that homeschooling is. It's not, it's not necessarily better or worse. It's an entirely different approach. It's an entirely, and people are still pricing and I do because it's a shift it's pricing Bitcoin in dollars. It's like if you're pricing it in dollars, that shift isn't, the education isn't complete and it's it's a lot to learn. But yeah, I would 100 percent, both of you guys just listen to some podcasts or read the Bitcoin standard, or, and there's so many, yeah, my husband my husband is very into.
Speaker 1:He went down deep in the Bitcoin realm. He we don't want to invest in things that we don't understand. Fairly well I would he certainly understands it a lot better than I do, but he actually was listening to people and talking about, well, how much do you want? And then they were talking about what's equal, you know if everybody switched over and what would be the best. He actually went through the whole process of kind of trying to figure out what would. What's an appropriate amount that would you know everything switched over to Bitcoin.
Speaker 1:that would actually be worth something, you know. And so he went through all of those All of us as we thought about awesome what to invest in and stuff.
Speaker 2:So I think it was interesting when you said you know, we'll see what the future holds. Yeah, it's a very interesting time. For sure, we'll all be using Bitcoin and homeschooling. I'm sure there's a lot of people in Bitcoin who are very passionate about wanting to homeschool, so I'm hoping this will reach a few of those people. And you said as well and miners your yes, your lesson, your lesson to yourself about money and live like you don't have money. We have a saying in Bitcoin stay humble. Stack sats which yes you'll.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you've heard that, but it's a big one. So, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for your time Fantastic to meet you and get to connect with you. You too.
Speaker 2:I'm sure we'll. We'll stay in touch and I'll make sure I connect your sub stack and let people know where they can find you on Twitter.
Speaker 1:It's at your handle is at hippie mom Felt, hippy mom PhD.
Speaker 2:The PhD. I love it and I love what you said.
Speaker 1:PhD.
Speaker 2:Make sure those very important three letters are there.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, you know, but you know but that was one of the things I liked about the name was that it was like it was like this kind of funny. It's like, well, I'm a hippie but I'm like I'm these weird things.
Speaker 2:I'm a university.
Speaker 1:I'm a hippie with qualifications Like I'm like I'm, like I make these things that don't, these things that don't make sense together, like I kind of like that I love it, I love it and technically that is it. Instagram too, but I don't, I don't know anybody, I don't use it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think hippie mom PhD is perfect, Having met you and chatted. It's. It's the bridging together of these polar extreme views, of the traditional system and the slightly alternative system, and you will need to find our place in the middle somewhere. So, thank you so much. We'll keep in touch and yeah, awesome talking to you.
Speaker 1:It's fantastic to meet you in person Well, that person, but over video and I want to thank you so much for what you do. I was going through your podcast and teaching you, teaching people things that they should have known as cool. It's such a huge passion of mine and if you do open a school, I think that would just be beautiful. I think that you know we need more people who want to teach people in better ways and connecting with you know younger kids or older kids, I mean, there's lots of things people do in high school. I just think you. I think it's so great that you're a coach and putting all these wonderful things out there, and so it's fantastic to know you and hopefully chat more often in the future. We will, for sure.
Speaker 1:Hello my friend, as someone who is not the best at finishing the things they start.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for making it to the end of this podcast. I hope you found it helpful. Maybe it piqued your curiosity on something new or even just made you smile for a few seconds. If any of those things apply here, then all my regular tech challenges and tantrums are well worth it to get this to you, if you heard anything at all that you think could help just even one other human being. There's a couple of things you can do that I would really and truly appreciate. Firstly, you can follow or subscribe wherever you're listening.
Speaker 2:On most podcast platforms, this is usually just a case of hitting a follow button or a plus sign on the main show page. This means you'll never miss an episode, which is hopefully a win-win for us both. Secondly, if you're feeling really generous, you can leave me a five star rating or review wherever you're listening. And lastly, feel free to share an episode with a friend on social media. With any thoughts, feedback, suggestions or even criticism, it's okay, I can take it. Just tag me using the handle at Amy Taylor says to make sure I see it and can thank you personally. Any or all of these things genuinely mean more human beings see and hear these conversations. So again, thank you for being here and helping me with my mission, with BU, get Paid, and with the help of the people who are here today. I'm so happy to be here today and to be able to help as many people as possible know themselves, know money and be happy. Thank you.