#017 Creator Life, Antisemitism & Bitcoin w/ Carri Cee

"I got a message from a friend of mine just as I was hitting a thousand followers on Twitter and she went "congrats on a thousand followers". And I went "ha ha ha, because she's got 18,000 followers, right. But she came back and she said, yeah, but the first thousand to the hardest.

...you can do all the grunt work and the difficult stuff if you have a strong sense of purpose and passion and you believe in what you're doing and you care about it.

...you just pump people with enough propaganda and enough fear and then you offer them a solution. And then you vilify a group of people and then you offer them a solution - like a quarantine - and they go "get those people in there so that they're I'm safe". I had such a gutteral reaction to that.

...physics works anyway, Bitcoin works anyway. Bitcoin doesn't care what you think".
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Carri Cee spent 25years as a Corporate Communications & Presentation Trainer. Prior to this, she worked for large organisations in stockbroking in both the UK and Australia.

Carri ran her own business for 18years and - in her words - has “always been a good citizen, assumed the government were slightly inept but not malicious and that mainstream media were somewhat trying to uncover the truth”.

These views changed dramatically after her first hand experience of the extensive lockdowns in Melbourne, Australia. It was a major turning point for Carri across all areas of her life.

Having gone down the proverbial ‘rabbit hole’, she turned her full attention to Bitcoin - starting the ‘Bitcoin People’ podcast and advocating for it to her local political parties and being invited to run key note presentations for the Australian Libertarian Party (formerly Liberal Democrats).

Follow Carri on Twitter: https://twitter.com/carri_cee

Check out the Bitcoin People podcast on all major platforms or on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Bitcoin-People
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Transcript

Carri: 0:00

And I got a message from a friend of mine just as I was hitting a thousand followers on Twitter and she went congrats on a thousand followers. And I went ha ha ha, because she's got 18,000 followers, right. But she came back and she said, yeah, but the first thousand to the hardest, and you can do all the grunt work and the difficult stuff if you have a strong sense of purpose and passion and you believe in what you're doing and you care about it. You just pump people with enough propaganda and enough fear and then you offer them a solution. And then you vilify a group of people and then you offer them a solution like a quarantine and they go get those people in there so that they're I'm safe and everything about that. I had such a guttural reaction to that. So physics works anyway, bitcoin works anyway. It's just Bitcoin doesn't care what you think.

Amy: 0:58

Well, thank you for tuning in to the BU Get Paid podcast. My name is Amy Taylor and I have one goal by being in your ears to explore what it means to create a life of personal and financial freedom and happiness in a brave new world, a world that many of us may be struggling with at times, but also one that's full of opportunity for those who are open to it. My guests are all walking their talk with this stuff, meaning they're earning money from businesses, brands and platforms they have built themselves. For most of them, it's usually involved making some unconventional choices and some big ballsy leaps of faith, and I'll be doing my best to extract the lessons they've learned along the way in the hopes of inspiring you to consider doing similar Now.

Amy: 1:47

This podcast is proudly supported by some very carefully selected partners that I might interrupt the chat with, but I only ever recommend products and services that I am a customer of or user of myself, in other words, stuff I believe is worth taking the time to tell you about Now. There's definitely a chance you'll hear some grown up language on this podcast, but, most importantly, anything discussed by myself or my guests is personal opinion, for conversational and educational purposes only, and should not be taken as financial or investment advice. Okay, housekeeping done, let's get into the good stuff.

Carri: 2:25

It took a while to find my rhythm and I reckon it was four, five, six episodes perhaps before I started to go. How do I want to introduce it? The very first one I did. I'm sitting there going, hi, this is the first. I don't. I think the point of this podcast is, I don't really know, I'll just kind of wing it and then kind of went okay, and then I just kind of hit this natural rhythm with how I want to introduce people and it might have taken more than that. It might have taken a dozen episodes before I went. Oh, this is how I do my opening.

Amy: 2:59

Yeah, and this is all good stuff for me to come back to, which we've never really had a chance to talk about.

Carri: 3:06

But I'm gonna ask we really need to just have a well, I mean we can do it an online chat or an offline chat, but really just kind of talk, podcasting and what we're both learning? Because I was watching Mr Beast on Joe Rogan. We ended up talking about Joe Rogan when you came on my show as well, and I saw Mr Beast on Joe Rogan and he was a great interview. Jimmy's kind of a funny character. He's so full of young enthusiasm and so much energy and he's crazy big podcaster. And there was a point I was gonna make about Jimmy and I've completely lost what it was. What were we saying? Oh, about podcasters? No, he was the point. He was the point In his early days.

Carri: 4:02

Well, I've heard this story a couple of times from him. In his early days he got together with three or four other podcasters and they went for a thousand days. The three or four of them would get online with each other 10 hours a day or more and they would do nothing but talk about podcasting techniques and experiment with thumbnails and the brightness of the thumbnail and the cutting technique. I mean, they're doing a different kind of podcast to us because we're just doing a conversation on an interview. They were doing gaming style interviews, Sorry, gaming style videos Streaming, and they did nothing but support one another and help each other to get the best in the world.

Carri: 4:46

And how do you make a viral podcast? How do you make a viral stream? I should say, and it's crazy levels of intensity. And to this day, Mr Beast can get online with anyone. Help them with their channel, give them some tips, give them some mentoring and take them to at least, you know, quadruple their subscribers and their income with and a lot of that information is out there. He's recorded a lot of that stuff. He's really open with it because he knows nobody can beat him. Nobody can possibly beat him because he's so devoted, he is so dedicated to the channel, he's so dedicated to churning out great content and he just knows nobody can match him. His passion is just unrivaled. He is so in love with YouTube, he's so in love with streaming. It's crazy.

Amy: 5:49

It's awesome. I love all of it. Has he said out loud that I know no one can beat me, or is that your assessment of it?

Carri: 5:56

I don't know that he said it in quite those words, but close enough. He's basically said I can give away all of this content and it doesn't bother me because nobody's gonna beat my passion, my energy, the hours that I put in the intensity. And also now he's reinvested so much money in it. So every single time has reinvested back into his streaming, into his channel and he's churning out like that. I don't know if you've seen the Squid Games replica that he created. That cost him $4 million to create and he just puts that money back in. He's built entire warehouses. He creates these entire sets that are one offs that can never be used again, and he'll do this stuff because he just wants to create the best content imaginable and that's all he does is studies what is the best content imaginable?

Carri: 6:54

And then I heard him in another interview with a couple of guys Samir and Colin, I think it is and he's shunned them around the studios and talked with them about the finances of it all and he was just all. He said that entire. He must have said it 50 times. I was listening with my son and he must have said 50 times I just need to make good content. The key to YouTube is make good content. If you want to make money on YouTube, make good content. Focus on making good content.

Amy: 7:24

If you want to make money period right On any platform, it's make good content. But I think people underestimate how much work is involved in any, especially if you're learning from scratch, and then certainly in my experience I've done it and I've watched lots of people I've coached do it. They try and be everywhere and then your full-time job is just content creation rather than any kind of skill or value that you have to provide. If you're mastering a skill or you have a business and you want to create content to promote that business, it suddenly becomes people are full-time content creators without actually having any expertise. And now that's what we're seeing is kids saying I want to be a YouTuber and I'm like, okay, and what's the value that you're going to create content on YouTube about?

Amy: 8:17

And so with Mr Beast it started off as I didn't. I've learned a lot about him just listening to you. It just sounds like with him it was a passion for gaming, probably first, and then just share hours and volume, which can go clearly goes a bloody long way. And then the dynamics change. When you start making money right, you can reinvest, you can hire people, you can duplicate. You've just got replicable stuff that can just be scaled. But when you're starting out it's hard, it's time consuming.

Carri: 8:48

That's exactly right and it's a lot of grunt work at the beginning and I got a message from a friend of mine just as I was hitting a thousand followers on Twitter and she went congrats on a thousand followers. And I went ha ha ha, because she's got 18,000 followers right. And I went yeah, yeah, good on you, from you know, miss, 18,000 followers.

Amy: 9:12

And she went no. Compare yourselves immediately.

Carri: 9:15

Yeah, that's right. But she came back and she said, yeah, but the first thousand to the hardest, and that thing of just getting started, and you can really see it as you start to get. There's this kind of virtuous spiral of you start to get a bit of a reputation that allows you to go to some bigger names, for instance, in our case. Now, this is different to what value have you got to offer? So now we've got two different discussions going on. So in the case of Mr Beast, it was he just had a passion for YouTube and for gaming and then that broadened out into a whole lot of other. Now he does. I'm going to bury myself for 24 hours in a glass coffin.

Amy: 9:58

you know all we're going to Now I've got this attention.

Carri: 10:00

I'm going to do radical, weird stuff, totally radical, weird stuff with his mates that know how to make great content and how to be good on camera and they'll do like seven days on a desert island and they'll turn it into a half hour video.

Carri: 10:17

So he's really like just absolutely cherry picking the best of the best and goes to all that cost for this. Really quite simple when I say simple, not at all simple, but quite succinct video that gets the hits. But there's something about when you can, as you said, you can reinvest and then you can scale up, and I've noticed that Peter McCormack now is branching out. He was actually saying recently that he regrets calling himself what Bitcoin did, because he wants to speak to people outside of the Bitcoin community. And of course, I'm going to have the same problem at some stage, which is my podcast, is called Bitcoin People, and so that ties me into the Bitcoin community and what happens when I want to start going beyond, beyond that and expanding out to your start on your channel, which is again what Mr Beast has done, and created different channels for different things. Well, so I don't know.

Amy: 11:10

There's ways that you could potentially leverage going back to some of the Bitcoin people you've spoken to and see what they have done with their newfound riches. Perhaps Like documenting the way those lives are changing because of being a Bitcoiner, right that's something I thought about Because I didn't want to only talk to Bitcoiners, but I found that, to get started, it's been helpful for me to craft my conversation to pull in all the topics that I want to pull in, because the Bitcoiners I've spoken to and connected with just have the same lens of what I'm trying to get across to people, but I don't want to only talk to Bitcoiners.

Amy: 11:48

In fact, whether you were a Bitcoin or not, for everything we've just spent 10 minutes talking about wouldn't have mattered, because it's about starting. It's about getting started, taking the baby steps, realizing there's a crap load of grunt work at the front end, but you will reap the rewards later. So I'm actually really glad that I hit record and we've had that conversation, because now we can start. But I will absolutely leave that in. I was just looking up Mr Beast because I've obviously heard of him. I've seen whoa. I've seen very loud video to start with. It's looking. So he's got 179 million subscribers. I know right, darr, that's what I oh 12, 2012. So he's been going 11 years 11 years?

Carri: 12:29

Yeah, and he was, I think the first couple of years were deleted for some reason. I think he went through a phase in his late teens where he felt embarrassed about his early teens and he dropped the first two years worth of videos. So it's kind of crazy stuff. But you know, what's kind of interesting is where it potentially leads, because you and I have talked about affiliate links and we've talked about a sponsorship and the difference between those and that there's affiliate links is absolutely where you need them, want to start, and over time, if you get that traction and you get the reputation and the credibility, then potentially you can look into sponsorship deals. But an idea went through my mind recently right, I've got a girlfriend who makes perfumes. She does these beautiful organic perfumes and they're all natural, and can I say the name of it?

Amy: 13:34

I'm not actually, please do give them a plug shrinking her, because we want people to get paid, right?

Carri: 13:39

yes, absolutely. She's here in Australia. The name of her product is Kiss my Body, so it's a great name. And I've got this idea that I want to do with her, right, because I want to set up an affiliate link with her. I think it will help promote her. It helps, you know, I think it's a great product to promote. But I had this idea that was going through my mind that some people think is funny and other people just think is really off-putting. Right, I'm going to go. So, if you're listening to me, you've heard your voice. If you're watching me on YouTube, you've seen my face. But what you don't know is I smelled weight. I smelled amazing.

Amy: 14:16

You're a natural marketer, you don't need my help.

Carri: 14:21

And so I've got this whole idea. And then I was going to finish off with a beautiful, organic, natural, kiss my Body.

Amy: 14:27

You can kiss your partner's body without getting toxic fumes, you know, and getting sick, you know, I would like to interrupt you at this point and vouch for the fact that Carrie absolutely kisses her partner's body because she did a very passionate goodbye almost on camera, just before we started recording. So please carry on. I'm just vouching for proof of work.

Carri: 14:48

Yeah, almost caught on camera and I shuffled him off stage. He's going away for a tentative meditation retreat. I wonder if he's talking about that. He's not even allowed to have a phone or anything, so we're not even going to be in contact. So, anyway, I'm going to finish this piece with the perfume. I'm going to sniff my wrist and I'm going to go oh my God, I could sniff myself all day right, love it. And some people think that's really off-putting and some people think it's funny and I don't know whether it's going to work or not. But I really want to promote her product and what I was thinking then over time was then that we could make some Bitcoin specific product. So I was thinking like sats, you know, like short for satoshis, sats sent, so sats sent, the scent of sats. Yeah, so we could create some big Sats is faction oh I'm loving it.

Carri: 15:42

Sats is faction.

Amy: 15:44

No, I'm just saying Look at us brainstorming. You are welcome audience. Whoever hears this.

Carri: 15:50

Absolutely. This is like one of those marketing brainstorming. See, this is what Mr Beast does. He sits around and they just come up with ideas. They do these brainstorming of what's going to be the next video.

Carri: 16:01

So then I thought, and then I was thinking like, oh, de necomoto and stuff like this. And then I'm like, well, maybe I could get into the perfume business with her and I can sell it you know, merch on my website, as well as hairs or something on weekend. And so now suddenly I'm in the perfume business, like, but you know, I think there's really something about you and I have had this conversation before a little bit over on my channel, but there's an overlap here and it's about. I think there's something about people who are self-employed, who can't help. But, like, I became self-employed because I wanted creative control. So I was working for someone else for 11 years I was a presentation skills trainer and corporate training. I was doing presentation skills influence. Oh no, at that stage I was just doing presentation skills. And I ultimately left him after 11 years and we're still on good terms and we still occasionally do work with him for one another. But I needed to leave because I wanted to set up and I had always wanted to be self-employed From the time I was 19,.

Carri: 17:13

I was living in the UK. I remember living in this, basically squashing in this flat that was just dilapidated. I mean it was crumbling London. Is it London we're crumbling? It was in Notting Hill. Of course, the Aussie in Notting Hill.

Amy: 17:29

You're trying to live in Notting Hill as a student teenager, then you probably will be living in dilapidated One of the most expensive suburbs in London, but good for you.

Carri: 17:40

I don't think it was back then. We're going back over 30 years. We're going back probably closer to 40 years actually Still not, Maybe not quite. But I remember there was this series in the newspaper. It was a magazine that came out every week and it was about self-employment and how to start your own business. And I remember collecting those magazines and I hole-punched them and I put them in a little folder and I knew from the time that I was 18 or 19 that I wanted to be self-employed and I thought maybe it would be like a little natural food, organic, you know, little hippie-quiet thing that I had in the back of my mind and I've never really wanted to build a business employing hundreds.

Carri: 18:29

I know it doesn't appeal to me whatsoever, that level of responsibility, to be honest.

Carri: 18:36

But being responsible for myself and making stuff happen for myself and having the flexibility to go, I've got this idea. Why don't I promote perfume, you know, and just be a, and here's how I want to promote it, and it'll work or it won't work, and then I'll try something else and that's really attractive to me and I've got friends who are just like you know and I'll go. Well, why don't you go out on your own? You could do this and you could do that and you're so skilled and you're so capable. And it doesn't appeal to them whatsoever. And I've had people say to me well, I like just the regularity of the weekly wage and I know what I'm getting and I can organise my life around that and I can budget around that and I totally get that as well. Yeah, Because as long as I've been self-employed I've had to sell for a living. Or even before I was self-employed, when I was working with this other guy in presentation skills training, I was commission paid and so I've done that for so long now.

Amy: 19:34

You build resilience to it. You have to.

Carri: 19:38

You have to, don't you?

Carri: 19:39

And people have such a thing about selling. You know like selling is a dirty word and I'm like selling is the backbone of every business. Without the sales team, you don't have a business. You can have the most beautifully engineered product in the world, you can have the best service in the world, but unless you can sell it, nobody's going to discover it, nobody's going to know about it, nobody's going to buy into it, nobody's going to try it, nobody's going to use it. You're not going to get any repeat customers. And so salespeople are the backbone of business and business is the backbone of the economy, because business pays people. Those people pay income tax, the business pays tax and that tax keeps the rest of the economy going around. So, frankly, salespeople are the backbone of the entire economy. So don't be knocking salespeople.

Amy: 20:27

Amen and it's also I think it's a dirty word because prior to the internet, someone had to sort of get in your face and knock on your door and persuade you, whereas one thing I'm always saying, having exactly that conversation with so many business owners, is like you might not like sales, you might not like marketing, but unless you've got a shit ton of money from the get-go to invest in paid advertising or specialists that can run all that for you and even then how do you know they're doing a good job Are you just going to accept that they tell you you need at least 10 grand a month to get this off the ground If you don't understand that skill set, even at a very basic level which is why I promote education the way I do, because it's like, if nothing else, even as an affiliate, you need that skill set to sell someone else's, and if you're in a day job, you're just a cog in the machine where someone else is selling, but if they don't do their job, you haven't got a job.

Carri: 21:22

That's absolutely right, and so I'm really trying to study this at the moment. Like I'm watching how people do their affiliate links, so I listen to how Joe Rogan does his ads these days. I'm as interested in the way he does his ads, and maybe in his case, all he needs is the credibility that he's got, that's built up over being top of his game in MMA top of his game in stand-up comedy and now top of his game in podcasting.

Carri: 21:53

So maybe he doesn't need any particular special skills in selling and marketing, but the rest of us? There's an old saying in marketing about only 50% of the budget works, but you don't know which 50%, and so you're doing a scattergun approach and you're doing outdoor advertising and radio advertising and Facebook advertising and whatever it is, and maybe things are coming in. I think you can track that better these days with online marketing.

Amy: 22:25

I'm really glad you got there. I was about to say that must be quite an old saying, because Right. My mentor was when I got into it more like 10 years ago. The saying was if you're not tracking, you're not marketing. You are throwing shit at all and seeing what sticks.

Carri: 22:43

Right, ok, so this is the difference between traditional marketing and digital marketing.

Amy: 22:49

Exactly right.

Carri: 22:50

Yeah.

Amy: 22:51

And. Just going back to what you were saying about Joe Rogan and Mr Beast you know it may not be a skill to just persist long enough until you get traction, but it's a trait you absolutely need to have and I'm guilty of giving up too soon on lots of things until I've started because I lose interest. And the podcasting is the first thing that I can actually see myself doing, as long as I don't over commit by doing like three a week would just be impossible on my own if I want to do anything else, and I'm fortunate in a position to not do anything else yet.

Amy: 23:28

But it's just a medium that I think is really underrated and I think it's going to be really cool to sort of journey along that with you, Because you're crushing it. You've got what? 1.3,000 subscribers on YouTube and you only recently going back to what you said about your friend, the first thousand to the hardest you only recently crossed the thousand mark, right, so that's ticked up pretty quick.

Carri: 23:49

Yes, and there's a little bit of ebb and flow and luck with that, because you just don't know, it's like it'll go flat for a while and there's just a few people dribbling in here and there over a few weeks and then suddenly you'll have a guess that you didn't necessarily anticipate was going to be really big and then suddenly a flood of kind of names come in and if you drop off here and there, but seemingly not as many that come in.

Carri: 24:19

But I just want to come back to the point that you just made about thinking that you've maybe given up on some things too soon, because my son said this to me recently Now, admittedly, he's only 15. So how much has he tried that he's given up on? But he said you know, I'm not following things through. I get these ideas but I don't follow them through. And I haven't actually, but it's been playing in my mind. I haven't actually played this back to him yet but to my way of thinking, things have fallen into two categories for him Things he has absolutely followed through. So he's got quite a thriving business in Lego trading.

Amy: 24:57

Quite 15 year old son has.

Carri: 24:59

Yeah, 15 year old son. He's just picked up a part time weekend job at a Lego store. So where he's got the passion, he's absolutely all then and he completely follows through and he does my editing for the podcast or he does the thumbnails. These days he doesn't do all the editing and and so he follows through where there's a passion or where there's an interest. Where he's given up is where he's gotten part way either in the idea formation or started to try something and then found out actually this isn't going to work, either because my time won't allow me to follow this through properly, or it's actually not a profitable idea, or it just doesn't capture me enough for it to be a passion for the long term. Therefore, it won't be sustainable.

Carri: 25:51

Therefore, sunk cost fallacy. Why would I put in more time grunting away at something that doesn't capture me? So I do think it's got to be something you've got some natural passion for and where it's not and you talk about this it's got to be something that you find Easy, not in terms of yes, there's a fair bit of effort involved and there's a lot of fiddling around with the admin or with the technology or with the bits you don't like, or recording the affiliate links or whatever it might be. All of that is fiddly and some of it is kind of difficult and requires a bit of thought and requires a bit of effort and requires time.

Carri: 26:30

But if the underlying passion is there yeah. All of that is manageable, and it's what Victor Frankl no, Victor Frankl was quoting in his book Man's Search for Meaning. He quotes Frederick Nietzsche Right here.

Amy: 26:45

It's one of my amazing book. Must be visible at all times.

Carri: 26:48

collections you know I need to go back to that book. I would actually love to reread that. And he quotes several times, more than once in that book, frederick Nietzsche, I think it is, and it's he who has a why to live, can bear almost anyhow.

Amy: 28:49

Yes.

Carri: 28:50

And you can do all the grunt work and the difficult stuff if you have a strong sense of purpose and passion and you believe in what you're doing and you care about it and at least half the job, or more than half the job, is joyful for you, like for me, all the researching of all the people like I would put in four, five, six, sometimes 10 hours of research or more into any given interview.

Amy: 29:14

Wow.

Carri: 29:14

If that's not joyful for me, then why am I? Why am I doing it? You know.

Amy: 29:20

I love that You've just completely naturally segwayed into what I probably would have started the conversation with. But this is perfect. We've done get paid first. Now we're going to do be you. So thank you, that was awesome. What a great way to naturally have a podcast interview conversation. I think we both just learned something from that.

Amy: 29:39

I've been saying for my last few episodes I'm just not going to prepare, and I do. I definitely prepare a little bit, but again, I need to be efficient and you and I talked about this on yours when you said how present, how Joe Rogan talks as if they're blokes talking and no one else is watching, and I think my response to that was because he's super present in the conversation. And I find, if I overprep when I first started and I had Nat Brunel on and I had a couple of other people, I was like must prep out of respect for them, I must prep and it just took me away. And now, when I'm editing and I'm watching myself back, I can see it in myself that I'm more relaxed because I haven't overprepped.

Amy: 30:19

But it's never not joyful listening to that, but these people's content because I love the Bitcoin journey anyway, and it's like we've all probably said, you start to just see it through your own lens, naturally, but you've got to keep going and keep making content to find your voice, to find your angle. So I think so much of what you just said is so spot on and it'll be interesting to see where both our podcasting journeys go, because we're in completely different fields, completely different angles. But I think you're right.

Amy: 30:45

That underlying passion and interest is where you lose yourself in 10 hours of editing or reading or listening to prep for a guest. But it's interesting that you just brought up Manseh Chameining and Victor Frankl and was Frederick Nitsch. Is it Nitsch? I've seen a few of his questions.

Carri: 31:04

Nitsch, I don't know his answer. Look, I'm guessing it's German, so neither of us are going to get it right.

Amy: 31:10

Was he? Well, I was going to say, was he also a Holocaust?

Carri: 31:16

I don't think Nitsch was before the Holocaust. I actually don't know the timeline and I'm thinking that Victor Frankl is quoting it, because Victor Frankl was writing after the war, but I think he's quoting Nitsch from well before the war. In fact I'm thinking maybe even previous century, but I could be wrong about that. But I think that's kind of one of those timeless things, isn't it? I just think he who has a wife can bear almost anyhow throughout the ages, if you're doing it for your family, for your community, for some people, for their country, absolutely.

Carri: 31:56

It becomes more bearable. And it's something that Sam Harris has talked about a lot and I've gone off Sam a bit of recent times, but he talks a little bit. He's always talked about that idea. I think it's his idea that if you're in pain at the gym, it's like you're pushing through and there's a purpose to the pain, whereas if you're in pain because you've done an injury and you're just walking around in constant pain, there's no purpose to it and it makes it much less bearable.

Carri: 32:30

And if you can't find a purpose for life, I mean, I think this for a long time I had no purpose in life and that was really hard and I was reading kind of Victor Frankel in the day but I was deeply depressed and suicidal for an incredibly long time and trying to find a purpose and had no purpose and could not find one.

Carri: 32:56

And that was even when I was doing very well in my work. I was really popular as a trainer, really well respected building kind of a business, but it wasn't purpose enough for me in terms of deeper truth of what's the meaning of life. I get that I'm contributing, I get that I'm making a difference in people's lives and it doesn't feel like enough. It's a kind of it's a purpose at one level, but it's not a big enough purpose to make me want to get up every day. I'll get up every day to do it and I'm good at it and I find joy in doing it, and then I come home I mean, maybe it was also whilst I was single and in and out of very dodgy relationships.

Amy: 33:42

Was it pre or post having your son?

Carri: 33:48

I think it lasted for a few years, even into having my son and what it transferred into there, and I really tried to keep this out of the home, but it was. There was. Oh my God, what kind of a world I brought him into. What was I thinking? And it's not fair to him and I had no right to do this to him.

Amy: 34:11

So then, you punished yourself as well, on top of that, for doing anything that we're kind of meant to do, especially as a female. Wow yeah, that would not have been a good place to be.

Carri: 34:23

No, it wasn't. And so I had this whole thing that I needed to work through everything psychologically and spiritually and whatever. And I never let myself go on to antidepressants. And I did that only a few years ago and it was only for a couple of years and it's completely changed everything. It's like, oh, I can just get up in the morning and things are just okay.

Carri: 34:47

I'm a big proponent now of antidepressants not necessarily too young, certainly not in childhood, but I for me, I think they rewired my brain and it was just an amazing transformation from getting up every morning and forcing myself to try to do affirmations and meditation and exercise just to stop myself from being suicidal that day, through to I just get up every morning and, right, let's get on with the day, like, no, some days, you know things go wrong, but I'm thinking this is how normal people kind of go with it. So I get the sense of purpose and meaning. I don't know that it's the answer to the be all and end all. Even though I got like through Buddhism, I got a greater sense of purpose again and that that kind of the need and want to awaken to the truth. And I've had some experiences of consciousness, of being consciousness and that rocked my world and that changed everything for me.

Carri: 38:05

But in terms of day in and day out, I can do meditation and it can give me peace for a period of time, but it doesn't fix depression. So so I yeah, that's been a really interesting journey for me. Through it all is going OK. I've done all the psychological and all the books and all the pop psychology and all that and, and you know, the spiritual and the meditation and the so on and so forth, and ultimately and I did try everything I like I don't feel like I should have tried harder. I feel like I devoted my life to trying to fix myself for at least three decades and then I did antidepressants for a couple of years and it changed everything. You know, how did I not? How did I not discover this sooner? Why wouldn't I let myself?

Amy: 39:03

That's so important to talk about this as well, because there's a lot of Bitcoin. I mean. Bitcoin community, like any niche or community of people, has its extremes, right, and there will be a lot of people that could assume. My partner is one of them, assumed, having gone to his first meet up with me recently when we went out camping a couple of weekends ago. You've got anyone and everyone in the mix, right, and there's there's a couple of people that will look up and go oh no, chem trails this morning, and then there's a couple of people that have been off on a walk and where they're not supposed to go because of Aboriginal ownership, all that stuff. So we had a conversation with someone about that and it was. They didn't even give their real names and they gave their students and therefore avoided getting rested or worse, I don't know.

Amy: 39:52

But you've got this cult slash culture in Bitcoin, like you have in many communities, and what I'm trying to do is just see where people stand on the spectrum of all things relating to our freedom and our happiness with this podcast in the world we live in today, because modern medicine, you know and you were, will get into your journey into libertarian libertarianism and the liberal party and all of that stuff. But you know, modern medicine has its place. 100 percent humans have created that and it's probably hopefully got a net benefit to society in terms of longevity of life, curing diseases. But there's, like everything, a downside to it which you know COVID brought to the fore and other other things bring to the fore. So I think it's really important, especially for women, to be talking about stuff like this. You know, I tried to fix myself for three decades, you just said, and in two years of antidepressants.

Amy: 40:54

You know life turned around. You no longer are punishing yourself for having a child in such a terrible world. I mean, why is this happening? This is where my devices all. I can't bear it. I can't bear it. Bear with me. I honestly thought I'd. Could you hear that ringing? Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, I won't edit that out. Whatever, I'm human and I thought I'd uncoupled all my devices from doing that. Clearly not always learning. What are we saying about learning? The tech Still learning, and then what?

Carri: 41:24

happens. And then what happens for me is like I'll put it on silent in fact I may not have done, and then I'll forget that I've put it on silent, and then my husband or someone tries to call me not that that's going to happen for the next 10 days, and then he can't get through because I'm still on silent. So anyway, it's the ever ongoing kind of issue, the battle, I know, but just to get back to that point.

Amy: 41:47

Yeah, I think it's really important that people you know we will get into a conversation now about your journey to bitcoin and why you value it, and that you were in Melbourne. You went through the lockdowns there. There, it's not every bitcoin aware is a tin foil hat and is anti-vaccine across the board or anti-establishment. So it's probably a perfect segue to get into your experience of bitcoin and why it is so deeply personal to you. And I wanted to segue from you talking about growing up in the UK and then you commented on Victor Frankel. You have family history that makes freedom deeply personal right, because this is how you introduced your presentation to the Liberal Party. So Libertarian.

Carri: 42:31

Sorry, sorry, I keep getting that wrong.

Amy: 42:34

So tell me, tell me, why that is so deeply personal for you Freedom, absolutely, absolutely.

Carri: 42:40

So, okay, where's a good place to start this? So so what you're leading to there is that I'm Jewish, my my, so both my parents are Jewish. My mother was brought up in the UK during the war. She was about five years old and being bombed in London. She had two older brothers, about 10 years older, and they were both flying in the army, so they were both in the war and she had cousins in concentration camp and so I was brought up with some pretty brutal stories of the Holocaust. I was never really particularly buffered or you know cotton mold around that. There was some pretty direct stuff about Jewish skins being used for lampshades and Jewish fat being used for soap and you know, and obviously the gas chambers and so forth, and we know it's not only the Jews, but anyway that was the the kind of backstory there.

Carri: 43:39

So what happened for me through COVID was I've had my own business at that stage for 28 years, or I it's not actually entirely true I'd been working for someone else albeit commission paid for 11 of those years, and then I'd set up on my own, and so maybe I'd been out on my own for 17 or 18 years and left my own devices and perfectly happy and always been a good citizen and always assumed that the government were inept but not malicious, that mainstream media were somewhat trying to uncover the truth, tell true stories, be journalists in the old-fashioned sense of the word, investigative journalists as they you know at least a cohort were once known and you know even large business.

Carri: 44:36

I do corporate training for large business and people are good and they're just trying to make a living and they want to make a difference in the world and they believe in whatever it is that they're involved in, whatever business they're involved in. And what happened for me through lockdown was I was concierge and from the start I seemed to have a different point of view and I think that was for two reasons. Well, I don't know why I perceived it so differently. I realised very quickly my experience was very different from those around me. Having a kid at home, getting three hours of school a week, was very different from most of my friends who didn't have children, and I had quite a lot of friends without children, so they didn't have because you were home schooling him sorry no, no, he was at public school during you're talking about during lockdown.

Amy: 45:27

He was at home three hours oh yes, absolutely sorry.

Carri: 45:30

Yes, I should have clarified that. So he'd gone from normal public school primary school. He was in years six and seven further. So the end of primary and the beginning of high school and during lockdown and and primary schools in particular, he got three hours of schooling a week online. And so, at the same time as I lost my business and I'm trying to pivot and I'm trying to go online and I'm trying to create a new business which is basically an online training business and record pieces and get the equipment and how do I work at all and how do I pre-record and how do I do online stuff and so forth. I'm also trying not to let my son lose a year's worth of education, which turned into two years worth of education, and trying to help him and support him in.

Carri: 46:19

It was just, it was just ridiculous the way the education thing worked. The schooling was, in fact but so because I was having a different experience right from the get-go and I'm and also I don't know whether I was exposed to different content or ideas or material or articles or blogs or I don't know what was going on, but I was hearing stories from other countries that seemed to clash with this like I was going, and what I was seeing was that there would be there would be information that would come out that would offer a different point of view, and then suddenly that voice would get shut down or censored or de-platformed. And I'm like, well, hang on. What happened? We were, we were starting down the line of this and then this happened and I was hearing I was doing some work at the time for a company that do so. I was doing some online strategy days and planning for I can't remember.

Carri: 47:21

They run the telephone operation for essential services, for emergency services, and I knew from them there was an uptick in suicides. And if I mentioned it, everybody poo pooed me and kind of went you're being a conspiracy theorist and and piled on and said no, that's not true, we've got the official figures on that. And I had people in the industry. So I've got friends who work for the coroner's court and they pick up bodies and they know what's a suicide and what isn't, and they were seeing an increase in suicides. And then I heard from one of the people inside that industry the Tobin brothers, who were a funeral business, had been gag ordered. And so I'm hearing this stuff on the one hand, and none of it's being, uh, none of it's being offered through the mainstream media, and I just and all I felt was this sense of something's not right things of being I wouldn't use the word cover up, but not being reported and seemingly deliberately not reported, and so I would put out.

Carri: 48:42

I remember putting out a tweet one day, or on Facebook message I don't think I was ready on Twitter at the time. I wish I had been because I would have found some like-minded people and I put up something that just said oh, there seem to be girls are missing their periods with the vaccines, so this is at the time of the vaccines now. Um, is this something we should be worried about? I literally posted it as a question and my cousin, who's a doctor, posted an article that said oh, this should answer your question, and the title of the article was for the conspiracy theorists, and so I'm being called conspiracy theorist left, right and center and I'm I'm like, and I kept trying to deal with it as questions and I just kept getting piled on and I just kept getting told that I was hateful and angry, even as I posed things as as questions, and that made me hateful and angry. For a period of time I became very hateful and angry and I'm not sure that I'm entirely over parts of that um, but it's it's healed a great deal.

Carri: 49:49

So and then the mandates. And the thing with the Vax mandates that really bothered me was that was the degree to which the unvaxx were being vilified and I wasn't unvaxxed. I really didn't have a problem with getting faxed myself. I just figured my body is really strong for whatever reason. I just have an incredibly robust immune system. If I get COVID, I think I'm going to be okay and if I get faxed, I think I'm going to be okay. My husband had a small reaction but it was okay after a little while. Um, my son had a short-term reaction but I really resented having to give it to my son because, a we knew that kids um weren't getting terribly sick from it um, and b we also knew that boys from the Israel experience as that happens uh were getting myocarditis teenage was.

Amy: 50:41

Yeah, I did a lot of research on kids too and I got really upset.

Carri: 50:46

And then we started to hear things. So the way the, the unvaxxed were being talked about, the way they were being portrayed in the papers, um, the, and then we're looking at quarantine suddenly and and then there, and then we're seeing people go. I don't want those dirty, filthy, unwashed, unvaxxed people anywhere near me. Stick them in quarantine. And I had a guy called Spike Cohen on my show recently and he's actually uh, going up this week, um, and he said that's. He explained it really well and he said that's how you see it turn really quickly. You just pump people with enough propaganda and enough fear and then you offer them a solution. And then you vilify a group of people and then you offer them a solution like a quarantine, and they go get those people in there so that they're I'm safe and everything about that. I had such a guttural reaction to that. So, as it was, I was feeling isolated and really uh, despite the fact that I was vaxxed, feeling very much in the camp of the unvaxxed and the people who were questioning, just questioning the narrative and questioning the measures and the overreach and seeing the second order effects that were going to come in the third of four third order effects. And what about our kids missing their education? And what about the kindergarten kids? And what about the teenage kids with mental health problems? And you know, and the businesses, of course, small business, because I've been small business and that was the other thing, anyone who was and Gideon Rosemont said this on my show recently you know there were two australians. There was two classes of people. Well, globally, there was the laptop class and there was everybody else. And you know everyone's going oh, we need to small business, go and buy coffee from your local. No, that's not going to do it. Don't shut us down. Don't shut us down for that long, for two years. Don't shut us down on short notice. Over the valentine's day long weekend for the florists, when they've already bought their flowers, that is their biggest weekend of the year by far. That's what you know, that's what they live on for half the rest of the year is their valentine's day profits and the fact that nobody gave a toss. It was all about keep me safe and all those kind of the virtue signaling eye care and I'm compassionate. I'm only compassionate if you've got a different coloured skin. I'm not compassionate, you know, if you're, if you're small business. If your teen is in trouble, if you're a parent in a standard middle-class family, you don't deserve my compassion and and you know, this is what Spike Cumber was saying and so I in that time.

Carri: 53:48

The only reason I really got involved in any of this was because a girlfriend of mine had done really well in the crypto bull market of 2018, and so I went. Well, I needed new income, because this is really difficult to do online, and I it was okay. For the first year, actually, I did everything online and then the second year, we opened up. Our clients would say, let's schedule, live again, and we'd schedule and then we'd shut down again and then we'd reschedule when we opened up again and then we'd shut down again.

Carri: 54:15

So it was really the second year that killed it and my girlfriend had done made this fortune in crypto and I went I ain't got to do that. I got to start trading crypto and then, over time, I realised the difference between crypto and bitcoin and then I went down the bitcoin rabbit hole and realised what it meant in terms of freedom. And then I heard people in the bitcoin community talk about libertarianism and I looked up my local libertarian party and I got involved in the local libertarian party and then I realised how how much government and government printing, and government printing that increases the size of government, that allows them to do more printing, creates this kind of sorry. I just call a glimpse of myself no, it's great.

Carri: 55:02

I'm just opening something whilst I'm listening to you carry on sure, and so I, and so I just, and then it was an epiphany because my mother was a gold bug and so I understood the issues around government, debt and public service and size of public service and the productive class versus the unproductive class and the leeches that government are fundamentally and the public service are basic. And then you've got people who are mediocre, who think it's a better, they're better placed to run your life than you are, and then watching the community turn to government, to the solution, whilst I'm thinking that government is the problem and and it just split me to the degree that I was perhaps differently wired already, because I was someone who always wanted to be self-employed, always want to creative control, always wanted that responsibility, or you know. Plus there were a one sorry, what's that?

Amy: 56:07

it goes deep.

Carri: 56:09

It goes deep and then it really created a schism through that and the size of the difference between the way that I think and many of the people around me that was covered up by peaceful, easy times became blatantly obvious when I had a different point of view during that whole period. And then it also became a matter of necessity to connect with the Bitcoin community, which is frankly why I started the podcast, because I just didn't know anyone in the space. I didn't know any Bitcoiners and even my girlfriend, who was into crypto. She was into trading. She wasn't really into Bitcoin per se and so I then needed to connect because I really felt like I'd lost a huge amount of community and I'd never felt so isolated.

Carri: 57:07

And now it's really about an understanding of what Bitcoin can do to bring actually everybody together and to equalise the playing field and it's a very unifying technology and regardless of the fact that I think differently to anybody else, and regardless of whether anyone actually gets the value proposition of what Bitcoin can do in terms of equalising opportunity in the world and I mean for the global South as well as for the lower and middle classes of Western society in terms of equalising opportunities for everybody, regardless of where you lean politically, regardless of what you think of lockdowns or mandates, bitcoin is going to equalise, regardless of your beliefs.

Carri: 58:02

So it's sort of like it doesn't really matter what you believe about the earth, whether it's flat earth or whether it's round. If you get in a plane, it's going to obey the laws of gravity and the laws of physics and the laws of aerodynamics, regardless what you believe. Physics works anyway and so Bitcoin works anyway. It's just Bitcoin doesn't care what you think in a really in the most positive sense possible I don't mean that is and it doesn't care. It's a protocol, of course it doesn't care. It's like the internet doesn't care what you look up.

Carri: 58:48

It just works for you, no matter what you're looking up the way honest mind what you're looking for, yeah you will find what you're looking for and honest money will work for you, regardless of what you think and what your opinions are, and so I think that's why it's such a great unifier is not even not.

Carri: 59:12

It's not going to unify our thinking. You will still have people at different ends of the political spectrum, but the opportunity is much more equal for anybody. Once you've got hard money, once you've got honest money, once it's sound money that you can work for, that you can save and that you can where it's not being interrupted by the government, they can't print, they can't create inflation, they can't take the cost of living and the cost of housing and the cost of food out of your reach and you can start. You can start saving with a predictability that food prices and house prices and I think you said something very similar to this on my show will be the same next year that they are this year, and I'm not going backwards at a million miles an hour because my wage can't possibly keep up. And now I've got to take risky investments in the name of trying to keep up and what we've got is a nightmare. So I think that's kind of whether that answered your question.

Amy: 1:00:15

I went off on a massive tangent, but are you what you answered my next five questions? I think my original question was just why is it so important to you with your? You know, when you were describing I didn't want to point out the obvious to someone, to anyone listening, but I think it was so perfect that we had the get paid conversation first, because that's what people come for. But the depth and the substance comes from the personal journey, which is Bitcoin or no Bitcoin. That is what I'm obsessed with, and getting people to realize that your story, your journey, your life's experiences, that you need share them. You will you turn it into something, which is what you're doing with this podcast, right? So I think I don't want to point out the obvious when you talked about Victor Frankel, your Jewish heritage, your ancestry, the stories which that hit me in the guts when you mentioned a couple of the rather graphic examples. But I don't think people appreciate how close we got to that mentality and movement and indoctrination of thought during the pandemic that we've too easily forgotten about.

Amy: 1:03:14

I wrote an article and I related so much to what you were saying about getting faxed. I was stuck in New Zealand and I had to. I had to get it if I wanted to come back so you couldn't get on a plane without it. And then resented it when my partner was discussing whether or not he should talk to his ex about their six-year-old getting it. He was five at the time, so he was gonna be right on the cusp of when they were rolling it out five man over, and then it was gonna be five and under and I was I.

Amy: 1:03:40

Just that took me down the rabbit hole as deep as I got and I was the same. I was sharing things on Facebook and family members would comment and I was gobsmacked. Then other people were sharing things that, frankly, were people who were generally quite quiet on social media. One friend in particular I can remember sharing a comment and he's kind of a passive user of Facebook and he's a very, very soft, lovely, lovely person and he made some funny, you know, sat up satirical comment about how the unvaxxer all queuing outside McDonald's because that's the only place they can go, the drive-through is open, so they're obviously, you know, I guess insinuating you're so bothered about a vaccine but you're eating McDonald's. And I just thought that's the kind of when someone who I know this person to be is willing to put something out there like that.

Amy: 1:04:34

It was frightening because of the lack of thinking or the lack of critical thinking as to you end up in a situation and I wrote an article about the vaxx mandates from my perspective here. At the time I was in Queensland and it was the same thing. It was like how did the Holocaust end up happening? It wasn't just overnight. Germany woke up and went let's get behind this guy who's gonna kill six million people, specifically Jews.

Amy: 1:05:01

It was ten or ten or so years of buildup, of, of movement, of promising people who were in a desperately poor situation because there was the depression and the Weimar Republic, and I've only learnt this stuff as a result of going down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, right yeah and so when you describe that so viscerally, it's understandable why you specifically would feel so strongly, and that's where I think people just need to stop and pause for a minute and get into someone else's shoes as best you can, because that the money is what drives us into those behaviors, and the money doesn't care what you think. It should just be fair and it's that wonky found, you know, that wobbly foundation of broken money, that that creates these movements that are frankly causing so much harm.

Amy: 1:05:51

I've just hoped the microphone for quite a long time, but I think I the article that I wrote, I mentioned the Nazis and people just piled onto that comment and it was being used in a lot of examples for the same reason and I just think you, as someone who has that Jewish ancestry, has so much more kudos to use it as an example and go. I grew up with these stories. Do you want to hear them?

Carri: 1:06:11

yeah yeah, I, you know, unfortunately the word gets bandied around too loosely these days anyone who calls a man or who doesn't call a man a woman, or who calls a man a man and a woman a woman, as thought of as an Nazi these days. So it's kind of lost its impact and we didn't get to that point, obviously. But to me it got frighteningly close and it was a. It was a shock to me. It was a shock to me and you know, what was a shock was the number of Jews who were completely behind it, completely behind it and were all for the mandates. And this is where, again, the difference in thinking comes in. So a lot of people I know who either didn't get faxed or weren't comfortable with the mandates, even if they did get faxed, was self-employed. And there is something different about people who are willing to take the risk of being self-employed, who just think outside of the square, who aren't part of the machine, who there's just a different mentality. So, my friend who has the perfume business ended up, you know, we're actually very different politically and yet we ended up in the same camp. And this is what I saw at the Melbourne protests. I mean, there was over a hundred thousand people there and you know anyone who was there who then watched on mainstream media how mainstream media reported that because there was a no fly zone declared by Dan Andrews so that mainstream media couldn't get footage so there couldn't be any media helicopters overhead, so a few people caught it with their personal drones. But there was well over a hundred thousand people there and we all know how much the media lied about that, saying oh, there are a couple of that, some people there or whatever.

Carri: 1:08:21

But what was really interesting about that was you had old-school hippies who are all about living naturally, who don't want to put this stuff in their body through to you know, small business people who are fed up with being locked down and locked down and locked down again and having to wear the brunt of it for everybody else in society so that they've got someone to blame and look like they're doing something when they're not doing anything at all. And then you had you know you had parents there who didn't want to back to their kids. You just had such a melting pot of different people there. And then you had libertarians like David Nimbrick, who's a senator here in Melbourne, who I think senator is the right word. So I'll remember a parliament at least. So it was really.

Carri: 1:09:15

There was a lot of people who found themselves thrown in together just going. There's really something wrong about this. But you've said something there which is about the incentive structure. You know, it's the kind of follow the money and when the money is broken and the incentive structures are distorted and you, you know, large business doesn't get there these days by taking risks and being clever and being smart and running a good business. It gets there through crony, crony capitalism and shall you know, kind of lobbying the government and building relationships with government and getting tariffs in their favor and subsidies in their favor and so on and so forth. So it's not true competition and it's not true capitalism. And if we could change that incentive structure, which is what Bitcoin does?

Amy: 1:10:07

yes then you start to get some more equal outcomes yeah, the follow the money comment is really all anyone needs to do, but it requires work. It requires time, energy and effort to actually go down the rabbit hole and yes, you don't know what's true and false on the internet, but, like we said before, you will find what you're looking for. So if, as long as you're thinking, I want to find counter arguments, you will find them. But unfortunately, people go as far as ABC news or CNN or and just don't think for a moment. Well, what is the opposite thought of this. It's exactly why I've recently changed my bio, because for coaching it's the same.

Amy: 1:10:46

If someone is struggling with something or can't get a result they want, it's usually a just a mental block. And you know and I always am investing in coaching for myself because you need no amount of books, podcasts or YouTube videos will sit you down one-on-one and pick up on your bullshit and go well, hang on, what about this? And that's all it takes. That's all it takes. You know, and I appreciate the fact that we talked before about antidepressants, and there's a place for that too but it's still our brain.

Amy: 1:11:16

It's still our brain and our mind that has us think and have opinions, and we have to be willing to rethink for the world we're in now, because it's a completely different place, and you, you don't have to look very far to see what's working and what's not working, and you know, I try and focus on the positive on my podcast by bringing on people like yourself and people that are making the most of the digital landscape that we're in. Bitcoin is one element of that, but it's one of the most important foundational layers, because it's how we transact. So, yeah, it's. It's good to see another female so passionate.

Amy: 1:11:51

So, um, you have joined up with your libertarian party. You're presenting, you're actually boots on the ground, doing something about this, which, what I love, you know not just out there creating content and talking a good game. You're actually getting stuck in and rolling at your sleeves at the human level, in the real world, which I think is really important. I just want to finish up with one tweet that caught my attention. I think it's one I originally reached out to you, and then we'll wrap up with advice to your younger self, because this is a perfect intro to it.

Amy: 1:12:22

You tweeted after one of the meet-ups you'd been to. You said I think I can say that I never truly exhale, speak my truth and be myself the way I am around Bitcoiners. What a effin relief and a joy. Oh, it was the Bitcoin Bush Bash, which, for anyone listening, is essentially a let's go into the wilderness where there's no accommodation and camp, which I did recently just for the one night. I'm not sure how many you did, but tell me about that tweet. I think I can say I never truly exhale, speak my truth and be myself the way I am around Bitcoiners. What made you say that and what does it mean for you?

Carri: 1:12:59

It's probably not entirely true, because I have had one or two other groups of people over the years who I felt like I could be trilling myself with and certainly I have that with my husband, thank God and so it's probably not 100% true, but certainly given the period of time where I have had to self-censor around so many friends and family. I've just been invited to a Rosh Hashanah dinner, which is the new year, the Jewish New Year and I want to go, but I've got a lot of trepidation simply because I know I'm going to have to self-censor through that whole dinner.

Carri: 1:13:37

I'm just going to have to bite my tongue, and around Bitcoiners and libertarians I can. I suppose it's just being around like-minded people, even people with different politics. We agree on the root cause and, even though we may have different political solutions, we know what the monetary solution is and the monetary solution makes the political solution irrelevant. So I think it is simply being around people who understand the world the same way that I do, who understand the root causes of many of our problems that we face the same way that I do, and we can just get so embarrassing but to sit there and just talk Austrian economics and stranded energy and shout to 5x and Bitcoin.

Amy: 1:14:29

It's not alienate too many people, because I'm not convinced that everyone who watches or listens to my podcast is an existing Bitcoin, or at least I hope they're not. It's stories like this that I want them to get on the bandwagon with, so let's pull that up there.

Carri: 1:14:40

Let's not put them off with that.

Amy: 1:14:43

I understand, because the last podcast I recorded was with Ivan, who I actually listened to him on you on your show.

Carri: 1:14:51

Oh, ivan, over in, bulgaria.

Amy: 1:14:53

Yes. Oh, here's an amazing amazing story, incredible story and I was talking to him. Just the only prep I did for that was your podcast with him, so thank you, and we had a different conversation, but the crux of his story is pretty compelling and it was at that moment. I just went Bitcoin's personal and unfortunately, I don't think if you haven't got ancestry like yours, for example, which is a very extreme reason to feel so compelled about the notion of freedom and something like quarantine playing out.

Amy: 1:15:27

It was when you were describing quarantine, I was like that would be visceral for someone who has ancestry and stories about the Holocaust. That's intense. And when I was talking to Ivan I was like Bitcoin's personal and, unfortunately, if people haven't experienced enough personal pain related to money or the impacts of government money or government state systems being so broken, they won't get it. For me it was finding out my mum. Her pension was about a third of what she needed to live after her husband and her mother died and they'd all been under one roof. So I went down the pension rabbit hole and was like why? And I kind of parked it and just got to work investing her money to try and grow it. And it was only once I realized, with Bitcoin, my Bitcoin rabbit hole, that personal story suddenly became so much more powerful. I'm like how many pensioners or parents of people my age are waiting for this moment of realization that one of them passes away? They're down to one pension, but all their bills are still the same it just hasn't happened.

Amy: 1:16:27

The pain isn't there, so they've got no incentive. You've got history, you know. You've got deeply personal, visceral, jarring stories. There's your reason. So just to tie back into that, you said you were feeling some sense of trepidation about going to a Jewish celebration. Is that because some of the people there you're talking about the culture of the COVID? I expect that they supported?

Carri: 1:16:49

I think they simply supported the measures rock, stock and barrel.

Amy: 1:16:53

Right. So I just think they're very left leaning as a group of people and I mean, if they're celebrating Rosh Hashanah and inviting people over, they're obviously practicing Jews. So so at no point I'm assuming, at no point you shared your take, as someone who was raised Jewish or with Jewish ancestry, to wake them up, because I would not be able to not say something. I don't know what's going to happen.

Carri: 1:17:17

I don't know what's going to happen. It's a big issue. I think there'll be quite a lot of people there, so it won't be the place to bring it up. I am starting to have those conversations with a few friends and we are managing to find a way through our difficulties. So some friends are gone with kindness and with love, because what's the point if it?

Amy: 1:17:42

Yeah, we don't need more hate around it. Yeah, now I get that.

Amy: 1:17:46

I think it's for me, it's my core philosophy is leaving nothing unsaid, which was something I discovered through a journey of personal development, and it's a pillar of my coaching, because I try and provide a space for people to say whatever they need to say for me, even if it's something they wouldn't dream of saying out loud. That self censorship is, I think, one pathway to speaking your truth Doesn't mean you have to say everything out loud in front of an audience of people, where it could go catastrophically wrong.

Amy: 1:18:14

But I do think we need to be willing to look at how do we make progress as humans If we don't hear everyone's voice.

Amy: 1:18:21

That's kind of what it's built on for me. So whenever I hear someone share something like that, like I'm going to be at this thing and I don't want to say it and I'm like no, you should say it, but at least start exploring. How can I? Because I wouldn't have known that about you until you mentioned it today. So I feel like that's something that you can definitely start making sure a few more people know about your history, because you have every reason to feel so convicted.

Carri: 1:18:47

Yeah, it's a gently gently process of moving forward from here, I think, with different friends and how you have the conversations with them, and I think it is a small group or a one on one, like if I go out with them just as husband and wife. That'll be one thing. I may be able to have a conversation with either one of them individually or together, but amongst their extended family probably not.

Amy: 1:19:07

It's very delicate, I'm sure.

Carri: 1:19:09

Yeah, it is delicate, and also because I'm not good at. I was just listening to Peter McCormack with them Interviewing someone earlier today. It was con something. Rather, he's a comedian, he sounds like he's got a slightly either Scottish or Irish accent or something and he's really got a reputation. He's got his own podcast and it's he's very good at being very reasonable and very open and stating his case and this is what Joe is so good at. And all of this is is learning for me, because I've always been, heart on sleep, very noisy, very passionate, you know high energy, I relate to that, but the you can't kill or scoop those words back into my mouth Too late.

Carri: 1:19:55

It's all out there now, and so that thing of learning to be a little more restrained and contained, it's outside of my natural comfort zone, and I've never had to manage it so carefully before. I've always been very thoughtful about how I communicate with clients and I've always been much more free flowing. That's the nature of friendships, isn't it? That's what you, that's what a friendship is meant to be, and yet that's not what it is for me right now. I love that you brought that up, because I think yeah, I'll let you wrap up.

Carri: 1:20:34

No, no, no, that's fine. That's fine, that was just what I was going for.

Amy: 1:20:36

I think it's so. It's fascinating that exactly that you were a communications mentor, coach, but yet we somehow seem to think communication is one thing over here in our work life and a different thing over here in our personal life. And that's a big In, not those words, but it's a core, underlying reason I'm doing what I'm doing now, because the line between personal and business blew up when the internet came around.

Amy: 1:21:01

And I think Bitcoiners really get that. So I'm super excited for you moving forward with your podcast because I do think you are being fully you. There's always growth. There's always more scope to see how far we go with that. It's an emotional maturity journey as much as it is a business journey.

Carri: 1:21:18

Yes, it is.

Amy: 1:21:20

But just to wrap up the two pieces of advice I always get people to give their younger selves on being you and getting paid. So knowing yourself and knowing money, two little nutshell nuggets that you want to give us. Pick an age, doesn't matter when, but knowing what you know now, what would you tell your younger version of Carrie?

Carri: 1:21:39

The younger version of Carrie, I would say in terms of be you. The advice would be actually you are different, you are wired differently. That's not an illusion, that's not a matter of oh, you just feel that way, but actually you're the same as everyone else. I mean, we're all unique, but there is something slightly different in my brain around the needs to be self-employed that feels very strongly, always has felt very strongly, about the values of freedom and truth. They have always been my top two and I said that explicitly well before COVID and lockdowns. So that's always been true for me and that actually does make me quite different in some ways to people around me. And if I'm not feeling like I don't fit in, my advice would be play to that strength and do find your people. There will be people in different corners.

Carri: 1:22:43

In terms of money, what would the piece of advice be there? I've actually played it reasonably well financially over the years. I've always been a saver and I got the value proposition. And because I was in stop-roking actually for almost 10 years, I understood about varied asset classes and so forth. I think perhaps I would say something about taking a little bit more risk, but I don't know that I've got a good piece of financial advice for myself there. It's probably something around the piece that you talk about, around limitation, and yet I've been conscious of that over the years and I haven't been able to address it beyond what I've been able to address it. I think I've just always felt like I'm doing well and therefore there's no need to reach from all, like I'm doing perfectly well, without feeling the need to stretch a lot further beyond.

Carri: 1:23:47

And without thinking. You know, it's possible to take this to a whole other level. Well, maybe that's going to come to you.

Amy: 1:23:55

Sometimes things happen for a reason, and I think there's nothing wrong with any of that, because if being in a place of I'm doing pretty well keeps you safe and happy and providing for a family and, you know, not losing your shit mentally or finding yourself ill from stress because of burnout or whatever, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I think you're now in a space with content creation and the internet, where working smarter rather than harder is so possible. So I think if you just keep doing what you're doing, those opportunities will come and possibly exceed your expectations. So I'm excited for you.

Carri: 1:24:30

Let's hope that for both of us. Let's hope that for both of us, beautiful. Thank you so much, carrie.

Amy: 1:24:36

It was really good to. I didn't need to do anything at all. It was great.

Carri: 1:24:39

You're my favourite guest that you give yourself credit for Well, I'm just going to put that into context.

Amy: 1:24:45

Carrie said to me in a message beforehand I'm not the best at being a guest, but I better get better because I'm doing more of it over the next month. So I can safely say I think you're a great guest, just give us something to feed off and she'll talk. It's great. That's all we need to do as podcast hosts.

Carri: 1:25:02

Amy, it's a pleasure. You're a wonderful host and you're a gorgeous person and I love what you're doing in the world.

Amy: 1:25:08

Thank you for having me on. Thank you Likewise. Talk to you soon. Hello, my friend, as someone who's not the best at finishing the things they start, thank you so much for making it to the end of this podcast. I hope you found it helpful. Maybe it piqued your curiosity on something new or even just made you smile for a few seconds. If any of those things apply here, then all my regular tech challenges and tantrums are well worth it to get this to you.

Amy: 1:25:37

If you heard anything at all that you think could help just even one other human being. There's a couple of things you can do that I would really and truly appreciate. Firstly, you can follow or subscribe wherever you're listening. On most podcast platforms, this is usually just a case of hitting a follow button or a plus sign on the main show page. This means you'll never miss an episode, which is hopefully a win-win for us both. Secondly, if you're feeling really generous, you can leave me a five-star rating or review wherever you're listening. And lastly, feel free to share an episode with a friend on social media. With any thoughts, feedback, suggestions or even criticism. It's okay, I can take it. Just tag me using the handle at Amy Taylor Says to make sure I see it and can thank you personally. Any or all of these things genuinely mean more human beings see and hear these conversations. So again, thank you for being here and helping me with my mission with BU. Get Paid to help as many people as possible know themselves, know money and be happy. See you next time.